Casey Griffiths:
This is human nature, right? This is a consistent issue in every era of the gospel. The Savior gives what I think are some of the most vital and important items of counsel found in the entire Doctrine and Covenants. Do we have to forgive every single person that sins against us or offends us? And the answer is, yes, you do. It just eventually continues to fester in a different way and causes other problems down the road.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah. Compassion doesn’t subvert justice. Forgiveness doesn’t mean people aren’t accountable to the law. Small and simple things are going to lay the foundation for a great life. Just keep the commandments today. Just do your best today to be kind to somebody. Let’s get into a couple of specific examples. Okay, so…

Casey Griffiths:
Hello, Scott.

Scott Woodward:
Hey, Casey. We are back again. Let’s just remind our listeners that this episode is going to just contain Section 64. And then after this episode comes out in the next day or two, we’ll get Section 65 and 66, where we will continue and finish this week’s Come, Follow Me curriculum. We kind of like breaking these up if they’re long like this because it allows us to go into more depth without feeling bad that we’re taking a lot of your time. This is kind of what we’re going to do, I think, with longer sections, aren’t we?

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah, just to kind of make it more digestible, I guess you’d say. These sections kind of show the bouncing back and forth between the daily things we have to do to be disciples of Christ, forgiveness and kindness, and higher concept ideas like building the city of Zion and receiving priesthood keys and the grand destiny of the Church. Those have to be balanced alongside these practical ideas like forgiveness, free will offerings, and seeking revelation to answer our own individual concerns. So that dynamic of bouncing between the things that we’re trying to accomplish as a people and the things that we’re trying to become as a person are all captured in these sections right here.

Scott Woodward:
Excellent. So today we’re going to cover the gamut from the sublime to the mundane and everything in between. And all of it, turns out, is important to the Lord. All right, Casey, so what is the context of Section 64 more particularly?

Casey Griffiths:
The weeks leading up to the reception of Doctrine and Covenants 64 were challenging times for Joseph Smith and other Church leaders. There was contention among the missionaries that traveled back from Missouri. And when Joseph Smith arrives in Kirtland in late August, this is still 1831, he found that several members of the Church in Kirtland had wandered off the path. This is addressed a little bit in Section 63 and Section 64 is carrying that on. So in the weeks following Joseph Smith’s return to Kirtland, the Church holds several conferences in which apostasy is addressed and those who they feel have entered into apostasy are held accountable for their errors. And according to the minutes of these meetings, several elders were silenced, which is a form of ecclesiastical punishment that follows the guidelines set out in Section 42:74-93 of the Doctrine and Covenants. And the records we have from this period show that at least three elders were silenced during these deliberations.

Scott Woodward:
What does silenced mean? Is that like you can’t preach in church meetings or what exactly would that look like?

Casey Griffiths:
We’ve used various terms throughout the history of the Church. There’s probation, which just might be something like your bishop saying, Hey, don’t take the sacrament for a little while while we work through this. There’s disfellowshipment, which I think is a term that we don’t use since 2020, which means we’re going to place restrictions on your membership. We might ask you to not use the priesthood or hold the calling. And then there’s removal of Church membership, also known as excommunication, which means you’re not a member of the Church. Silencing seems to be a form of what we used to call disfellowshipment, which is we’re going to curtail your privileges a little bit, which probably means they were asking these elders to not exercise their priesthood until they had worked through some of the issues that’s surrounding this. Again, none of this is punitive. It’s intended to spur them towards repentance and help them have lighter Church responsibilities while they’re working out the issues that they’re dealing with. And that’s just one thing that’s going on. Like you mentioned, Joseph Smith is intent in focusing on his big project during this time, which is he’s translating the Bible.

Casey Griffiths:
And we’re going to talk a little bit about what that means in future sections, but he needs time to do this. At the same time, it’s busy. They’re getting people ready to go to Missouri to help build the city that they’ve identified there. Joseph Smith is going to move, like you said, to Hiram, Ohio, so that he can have time to focus on the biblical translation that he wants to do. And that’s found in the revelation, too. The revelation addresses for the Saints in Kirtland the importance of Missouri as the future place in Zion. But it also kind of is dealing with this idea of we can’t build Zion unless we can get along with each other. And so it addresses some of the anger and bitterness felt both from the journey to travel to Zion and from the apostasy that happened among the members of the Church in Kirtland. So a lot’s going on, and this is kind of a let’s regroup, let’s figure out what we’re doing and why we’re here, and then let’s move ahead, kind of section of the Doctrine and Covenants.

Scott Woodward:
So the Lord opens this revelation with these words, “Behold, thus saith the Lord your God unto you, O ye elders of my church, hearken ye and hear, and receive my will concerning you. For verily I say unto you, I will that ye should overcome the world; wherefore I will have compassion upon you.” I think that’s the theme of this whole section is you have problems, you have issues amongst yourselves inter-personally and some practical issues you’re trying to work out. Because I want you to overcome the world, I’m going to deal with you compassionately. And he just sets the tone really nicely for what he’s about to say in terms of what he wants us to do in our own interpersonal squabbles. So he says this, quote, verse 3, “There are those among you who have sinned, but verily I say, for this once, for mine own glory and for the salvation of souls, I have forgiven you your sins. I will be merciful unto you, for I have given unto you the kingdom, and the keys of the mysteries of the kingdom will not be taken from my servant, Joseph Smith, Jun.. through the means I have appointed, while he liveth, inasmuch as he obeyeth mine ordinances,” which is my laws.

Scott Woodward:
So the Lord is reiterating here early revelations, where he emphasized that Joseph Smith holds the keys that are necessary to provide the guidance and direction for the entire Church. And each of these revelations emphasize that Joseph’s leadership is conditional based on his worthiness and his obedience to the Lord’s commandments, which he just said again in verse 5. Now, it’s understandable that while the Church is pretty small and while Joseph is struggling to lay the foundation of the Church, that other Church members are going to inevitably see his foibles, to see his weaknesses on full display. And as Latter-day Saints, we have never claimed infallibility for our leaders. And this revelation is underscoring that, right. Joseph himself is singled out, actually, in a couple of verses here, for his struggle to forgive others. At the same time, the Lord is asking his disciples to heed the counsel given to those who are placed in presiding roles as long as they are striving to keep the Lord’s commandments. Like Joseph is keenly aware of his imperfections. Like in 1844, right before he passes, he’ll say, quote, “I never told you I was perfect, but there is no error in the revelations which I have taught. Must I then be thrown away as a thing of naught?” Close quote.

Scott Woodward:
You can feel his frustration. We’ll talk about 1844 later. This was a time of intense opposition to the Prophet Joseph Smith, which will culminate in his murder. But he’s going to feel this tension throughout his life that, I’m getting these revelations, but I’m not a perfect man. So what do you want to do with that, Church members? He says, If you’ll throw a cloak of charity over my sins, I’ll throw a cloak of charity over yours. He’s like, Let’s work through this like disciples. And that’s what the Lord asked them to do in the following verses. He says, “There are those,” verse 6, “who have sought occasion against [Joseph Smith] without cause; nevertheless, he has sinned; but verily I say unto you, I, the Lord, forgive sins unto those who confess their sins before me and ask forgiveness, who have not sinned unto death.” Casey, what a powerful example of what to do when you see weaknesses in your Church leaders, from local leaders all the way up to the top. The Lord says, Yes, they sin, but guess what? I’m merciful and I actually forgive sins.

Scott Woodward:
They, too, are under the pale of my mercy. So be patient with them, right?

Casey Griffiths:
Let me pick it up here because this sort of surprised me when I read it. But verse 8, he says, “My disciples, in days of old, sought occasion against one another, and forgave not one another in their hearts; and for this evil they were afflicted and sorely chastened,” which was sort of surprising because we tend to idealize eras past and think, Oh, man, Peter and Paul and those guys, they really had it together. But the honest truth is, if you read the New Testament closely, you’ll note that there were sharp disagreements between people like Simon Peter and Paul the Apostle, where they continually were revisiting old arguments and fighting with each other and sometimes not getting along. Like, we don’t know exactly what incident the Savior is referring to here. But in the Gospel of Mark, the Savior, for instance, settles a dispute among his disciples who argued about who would be the greatest. And his disciples sometimes engaged in subversion over ordinances, covenants, missionary assignments. You can see this in the Book of Acts. Paul actually writes in Galatians that he withstood Peter to the face over the issue of Gentile integration into the Church. And so acknowledging that this is human nature, right?

Casey Griffiths:
This is a consistent issue in every era of the gospel. The Savior gives what I think are some of the most vital and important items of counsel found in the entire Doctrine and Covenants. So he says this, verse nine, “Wherefore, I say unto you, you ought to forgive one another; for he that forgiveth not his brother his trespasses standeth condemn before the Lord; for there remaineth in him the greater sin. I, the Lord, whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men. And ye ought to say in your hearts – let God judge between me and thee, and reward thee according to thy deeds.” So again, this is a consistent problem. It still happens a ton in the Church today that people get upset, and they hold on to grievances, and they don’t forgive. We even mentioned in a previous episode that Joseph Smith and Bishop Partridge have a very sharp disagreement while they’re in Independence, and that there was some belligerent behavior among the elders during the return journey from Missouri. And it seems like the Lord is trying to address these lingering feelings that are still remaining. In fact, one of the things that I love about the historical record we have in our Church is that it illustrates, in a greater degree than we’ve ever had before, how prophets and apostles genuinely struggle with this.

Casey Griffiths:
Like, maybe a quick story. Joseph Smith sometimes struggled to forgive others that had wronged him. For instance, several years after this, in December 1835, he’s involved in an altercation with his youngest brother, William. Joseph criticized a debating society that William had organized. And William becomes enraged, and he physically assaults Joseph, injuring him badly. If I remember right, while Joseph is putting on his coat and his arms are kind of wrapped up in that, William just clocked him.

Scott Woodward:
He sucker-punched him, man.

Casey Griffiths:
He sucker-punches him. And for about two weeks, according to the people that saw this, the brothers sought to reconcile, but they getting caught up in what was happening. They kept bringing up hurt feelings. It’s not until New Year’s Day when their father, Joseph Smith, Sr., actually calls a family meeting to help the two brothers to reconcile. In fact, Joseph Smith later wrote in his journal, he said that as his father, as Father Smith spoke, “The Spirit of God rested down upon us in mighty power, and our hearts were melted. Brother William made an humble confession and asked my forgiveness for the abuse which he had offered me. And wherein I had been out of the way, I asked his forgiveness, and the spirit of confession and forgiveness was mutual among us all.” So this idea of forgiveness, putting aside our differences and recognizing that not forgiving is very corrosive to our souls is something that, well, everybody struggles with from the lowest to the highest in the Church.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah, and it’s a remarkable tribute to the character of Joseph Smith as to how much he internalized the lessons of Section 64 here about the importance of forgiveness. Like, one of the most touching to me is when Joseph was put in Liberty Jail because some of his brethren turned against him, one of which was William W. Phelps, who we introduced a couple of episodes ago. He had turned on Joseph in Far West. We’ll talk about this later. But he’s one of the reasons Joseph gets put into Liberty Jail, where he languishes there for like five months in one of the coldest winters on record. And then once Joseph Smith gets out of jail and they establish Nauvoo, and Phelps realizes the impact of what he’s done to Joseph and feels really awful about it. He actually writes a letter to Joseph and asks if Joseph would forgive him. It’s like the audacity of this guy, right? After what he had done to Joseph and the role that he played in the expulsion of the Saints from Missouri was awful. Joseph could have said some pretty harsh things to W. W. Phelps, but we still have the letter that Joseph wrote back, and he said, “It’s true that the cup of suffering was already filled to the brim before you turned against us and was filled to overflowing after you turned against us.”

Scott Woodward:
Then he says, my favorite line, he says, “Come on, dear brother, for since the war has passed, friends at first are friends again at last.” Phelps is welcomed back to Nauvoo and Joseph tells the Saints, I’d like to receive him back into full fellowship, all in favor, manifest. And to their credit, they receive him back. You can’t fake that kind of character, Casey. That’s another one of a thousand little evidences of the genuineness and the the character of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He actually tried and succeeded, in many cases, to live the very revelations he received from the Lord, and he did it in a pretty marvelous way. I’ve always been impressed. He made mistakes. Yes, this revelation is acknowledging that. But he tried not to make the same mistake twice, to learn from it, to grow, and to actually apply what the Lord is saying here, which is an incredible example for all of us.

Casey Griffiths:
The next couple of verses balance kind of that idea of forgiveness along with accountability, though. Continuing in verse 12, “And him that repenteth not of his sins and confesseth them not, ye shall bring before the Church and doeth them as the scripture saith unto you, either by commandment or revelation.” So I want to make clear, he’s saying we forgive, but there’s still accountability. People will still, in this particular instance, be brought before the Church for the things that they’ve done wrong. And he emphasizes verse 13, “This ye shall do that God may be glorified, not because ye forgive not, having not compassion, but that ye may be justified in the eyes of the law, that ye may not offend him who is your lawgiver.” So he’s emphasizing the idea here that forgiveness is essential to our discipleship, but accountability matters, too. Compassion isn’t meant to subvert justice. And to attempt to absolve someone who’s broken God’s law, who hasn’t repented, is to, in his words, “offend him who is your lawgiver.” So ignoring a broken law in the name of forgiveness and compassion, he says, is also offensive to God. Now, these ideas are all kind of coming together, right?

Casey Griffiths:
Where, for instance, the person might ask, do we have to forgive every single person that sins against us or offends us? And the answer is, yes, you do.

Scott Woodward:
The Lord said that back in verse 10, right? “Of you it is required to forgive all men.”

Casey Griffiths:
But our forgiveness alone doesn’t release them from the consequences of a broken law. That’s a different matter that needs to be resolved between God and his Church, given this context here. So in verses 12 through 24, the Lord asked those who refuse to repent to be brought before the Church to be held responsible for the difficulties that they caused. So that balance between justice and mercy: if we don’t forgive, it harms us. But if we don’t ever seek to correct someone that’s done something wrong, it just eventually continues to fester in a different way and causes other problems down the road.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah. Compassion doesn’t subvert justice. Forgiveness doesn’t mean people aren’t accountable to the law. Holding those two in tension is one of the great challenges of discipleship. Love and law. Let’s get into a couple of specific examples. Okay, so in verse 15, the Lord says, “Behold, I, the Lord, was angry with him who was my servant Ezra Booth.” The word was there stings. “And also my servant Isaac Morley, for they kept not the law, neither the commandment.” Remember back in Section 52, the Lord said to go from Ohio to Missouri and preach all along the way, and they did not. They made the journey. They didn’t preach. They just beelined it to Missouri because they wanted to see miracles and stuff. The Lord says, I didn’t like that. In Verse 16, “They sought evil in their hearts, and I, the Lord, withheld my Spirit. And they condemned for evil that thing in which there was no evil.” So their actions led to withdrawal of God’s Spirit, and then they didn’t receive any miracles or witnessed miracles. And then they condemned the fact that there were no miracles. And the Lord says, You’re condemning for evil a thing that was no evil.

Scott Woodward:
“Nevertheless,” the Lord says, “I have forgiven my servant Isaac Morley.” Okay, just have to pause for a second. He said, I was angry with Ezra and Isaac Morley, and I have forgiven my servant Isaac Morley. Oh, snap. That does not bode well for Ezra Booth. We have talked about him. We’ll continue to talk about him. He leaves the Church right during this time period, and the Lord is not forgiving him, according to this section. Verse 17, “And also my servant Edward Partridge, behold, he hath sinned, and Satan seeketh to destroy his soul; but when these things are made known unto them, and they repent of the evil, they shall be forgiven.” So of the three men named here, two of them, Isaac Morley and Edward Partridge, sought and received forgiveness. And Ezra Booth did not. And with Isaac, we actually know he’ll remain faithful the rest of his life. He’ll cross the plains. He’ll help the Saints settle Sanpete Valley in Utah. Father Morley will die as an honored patriarch among the Saints in Fairview, Utah in 1865. But Ezra Booth, in contrast, only increases in his bitterness toward the Church after his journey to Missouri.

Scott Woodward:
In fact, within several months, Booth’s anger will lead to violence against Joseph Smith. In fact, according to Apostle George A. Smith, Booth’s apostasy, quote, “Culminated in collecting a mob who tarred and feathered Joseph Smith and inflicted upon his family the loss of one of its members,” which is their little son, Joseph Murdock Smith at Hiram, Ohio. So this is the famous tarring and feathering that has been depicted in the Joseph Smith movies. This is the one that Symonds Ryder was also in on. Symonds Ryder is a recent apostate as well. He’s one of Booth’s buddies, and those two will lead the mob that culminates in the death of Joseph’s little son, Joseph. And they will also beat Sidney Rigdon to the point that Sidney is never quite the same ever after this. Like, these two are real pieces of work. This is what it looks like to not repent.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. And I mean, continuing on with the verses, it also shows that when you seek repentance and you receive forgiveness from God, you’re forgiven and you’re brought to greater responsibilities. The next couple of verses, verse 18 through 20, emphasize Sidney Gilbert, who we’ve already talked about, who’s going to set up a store in Zion, but then also gives Isaac Morley greater responsibilities. He says, “That my servant Isaac Morley may not be tempted above that which he is able to bear, and counsel wrongfully to your hurt, I gave commandment that his farm should be sold.” This is referencing section 63, where Isaac Morley is told he’s going to sell his farm so that he can relocate to Zion, which Isaac does. Unfortunately, that results, it’s kind of an out of the frying pan into the fire situation where he has to suffer more tribulation in the things that happen when the Saints are evicted from their homes in Missouri. But he does so faithfully, and like you mentioned, Scott, makes it all the way to Utah and dies honored among his people. In fact, the next verse is one of those ones, verse 21, take a look at this, that is so specific.

Casey Griffiths:
It really, really does make me go, Oh, this is some real prophetic stuff here. He says this, “I will not that my servant Frederick G. Williams should sell his farm, for I, the Lord, will retain a stronghold in the land of Kirtland for the space of five years, in the which I will not overthrow the wicked, and thereby I may save some.” So this is really specific.

Scott Woodward:
This is another one of those thousand little evidences that Joseph Smith was a true prophet. You can’t make this stuff up. Continue. Tell us about this five-year prophecy. So Kirtland will be a stronghold for five years. What happens? What do we know about that?

Casey Griffiths:
This prophecy, this revelation, is given September 11, 1831. Five years from now is going to be September 1836, which, to be honest, is right about the time that the wheels start to come off the car in Kirtland. In January of 1837, the Kirtland Bank is introduced among the Saints, and it’s going to have a short-lived run and a catastrophic ending. By February, apostates are meeting in the Kirtland Temple to plan how to oust Joseph Smith as president of the Church. And by that summer, we are headlong into the Kirtland apostasy, which culminates in many of the core leaders of the Church being excommunicated, death threats on Joseph’s life, and a mass exodus to Far West, Missouri. Pretty much everybody that’s faithful in the Church. So five years, yeah, just like the Lord says here, is about how long the Saints last in Kirtland. Note here, the Lord says he’s going to give them five good years without overthrowing the wicked that “thereby I may save some.” This is kind of a glimpse into the Lord’s character as well. It goes right along with the theme the Lord set out for this revelation where he says, “I will that you should overcome the world, wherefore I will have compassion upon you.”

Casey Griffiths:
And notice that he doesn’t say here in verse 21 that Kirtland will be peaceful for five years. He says it’ll be a stronghold.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah, I think this is a super important point because many of the most important events in the early Restoration take place in Kirtland during these five years of being a stronghold. For instance, we’re going to get the First Presidency during this time period. We’re going to get the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. We’re going to get the Quorum of the Seventy. It’s all going to organized here. We’re going to get revelations, amazing revelations on the nature of the Godhead. We’re going to get the three degrees of glory. We’re going to get the future state of the Earth. We’re going to get some incredible revelations during this time period. Most importantly, I dare argue, this is where we’re going to get the Kirtland Temple. This is where the Savior is going to appear, along with Moses and Elias and Elijah, to bestow really vital keys for the salvation of mankind. And all of that before the five years are up. And so the idea that Kirtland will become not just a place of peace, but a stronghold to the Church for the next five years is totally borne out. However, there’s going to be an expiration date on it, he says. As wonderful as Kirtland was, the Lord emphasizes here, it is a way station on the path to Zion. It is not the final destination.

Casey Griffiths:
That seems to be inherent in the Revelation. If you pick it up in verse 22, “After that day,” probably meaning after the five years in Kirtland are up, “I, the Lord, will not hold any guilty that shall go with an open heart up to the land of Zion; for I, the Lord, require the hearts of the children of men. Behold, now it is called today until the coming of the Son of Man, and it is a day of sacrifice, a day for the tithing of my people; for he that is tithed, shall not be burned at his coming.” Now, just a little clarification here. This is well before, this is about seven years before Section 119, which establishes tithing as we know it in the Church today, which is about one-tenth of our interest or our income. That’s how the leaders of the Church have defined it. So when they’re using the word tithing here, it’s simply referring to any free will offering to God of any amount. In fact, they might have been paying more than 10% because they’re living the law of consecration, which could entitle more or less than 10%, depending on what your situation is.

Scott Woodward:
Wouldn’t you say that the immediate context here is what the Lord has talked about back in Section 58 and Section 63, where he’s saying, like, We need to raise funds for the purchasing of the lands in Zion. Like Sidney Rigdon wrote the description of Zion, there’s a pamphlet being sent out among Church members. They’re trying to raise money, and the Lord is saying, Any money that you give is a tithing. And so thank you for that. And those that are putting forth their efforts to build Zion are not going to be burned at the day of his coming.

Casey Griffiths:
There’s a balance here between the Lord ardently and specifically warning them and us being cautious to not overdo it. I’m not saying don’t overdo it with your tithes and offerings. You should pay them in full, but it’s the idea of burning. Pick it up in verse 24, “For after today cometh the burning – this is speaking after the manner of the Lord – for verily I say, tomorrow all the proud and them that do wickedly shall be a stubble; and I will burn them up, for I am the Lord of Hosts; and I will not spare any that remain in Babylon. Wherefore, if ye believe me, ye will labor while it is called today.”

Scott Woodward:
So he’s just riffing off of Malachi here, right? We’ve heard that language the Malachi prophecies, Malachi 4, that there’s going to be the great and terrible day of the Lord. It’ll be a day of burning. So he’s basically invoking that Old Testament imagery here, isn’t he?

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah, he is. And the other thing that he’s invoking here is this idea of the present versus the future. Like, what are you doing right now versus how are you planning for the future? Because everybody in Kirtland is caught up in this idea of Zion, the city of Zion and the millennial future and everything like that. But the Lord says, “labor while it’s called today.” This reminds me of one of my most important mentors, Brent Top, who was the dean of religion here at BYU, used this to sort of illustrate the Savior’s mindset. So I’m going to borrow from a book he wrote here. He did this thing in his classes where he would get up and say, Hey, do you know or do you want to know? He would kind of draw students in by saying, Do you want to know the exact day that the Savior’s Second Coming is going to be? And Brent said the students would usually shake their heads and say, Well, we don’t know the exact day, demonstrating that they’ve heard loud and clear and understand what we’ve been teaching them. Then he would push a little bit more and he would say, I’m serious.

Casey Griffiths:
I can tell you the exact day. And his students would usually push back and say, No, you can’t. You’ve just been telling us that no one knows. And then Brent would say, Oh, yeah, I can. I’m going to show you in the scriptures. You can go home. You can show this to your parents and your roommates. You can post it on social media. You can write it in your journal. You can take this to the bank. I’m going to tell you the exact day. So I just got to imagine at this point, Brent’s students are on the edge of their seat, and some are probably sitting there going, What’s the deal with this guy? Well, then Brent would turn to Section 64 of the Doctrine and Covenants and read these words, “Behold, now it is called today until the coming of the Son of Man, and verily it is a day of sacrifice, a day for the tithing of my people; for he that is tithed shall not be burned at his coming.” And then he goes on, “For after today cometh the burning – this is speaking after the manner of the Lord – for verily I say, tomorrow all the proud and they that do wickedly, shall be a stubble; I will burn them up, for I, the Lord of hosts, will not spare any that remain in Babylon.”

Scott Woodward:
Okay, so the exact day that Jesus is coming is tomorrow, speaking after the manner of the Lord.

Casey Griffiths:
It’s kind of a rhetorical device to engage students. But the honest truth is that Brother Top is right. We speculate all the time about the day, the year, the season that the Lord is going to come. But what the Lord is saying is you should always live as if it’s going to be tomorrow. This is the way Brother Top said it in his book, which he wrote a great book on the Second Coming that I’ll endorse. He said, “Let us rather live each day so that if the Lord does come while we are yet upon the Earth, we shall be worthy of the change which will occur as in the twinkling of an eye and under which we shall be changed from mortal to immortal beings. And if we should die before he comes, then if our lives have conformed to his teachings, we shall arise in the resurrection morning and be partakers of the marvelous experiences designed for those who shall live and work with the Savior in that promised Millennium.” It’s today. The Second Coming is going to be tomorrow. If you live your life with that kind of mindset, I think you’ll have a better and more meaningful life, and you’ll understand and find greater happiness in this life.

Scott Woodward:
All right, moving on to verse 26. The Lord addresses a a couple other practical matters. He says, “It is not meet that my servants, Newel K. Whitney and Sidney Gilbert, should sell their store and their possessions here,” meaning in Kirtland. “For this is not wisdom until the residue of the church, which remains in this place,” Kirtland, “shall go up unto the land of Zion,” Missouri. And that store, by the way, is like classic. That is vintage Kirtland, right? Today, you can still go to Kirtland and see the Newel K. Whitney and Company store. Sidney Gilbert is the and Company part at the end there. And it’s going to be a really centerpiece to the whole project of building up the stake of Zion and Kirtland. The Lord goes on, “Behold, it is said in my laws, or forbidden, to get into debt to your enemies; but behold, it’s not said at any time that the Lord should not take when he please, and pay as seemeth him good. Wherefore, as ye are agents,” speaking to Newel K. Whitney and Sidney Gilbert, “ye are on the Lord’s errand; and whatever yeu do according to the will of the Lord is the Lord’s business.”

Scott Woodward:
They are about the Lord’s business. In this case, it’s literal. They’re talking about transactions, they’re talking about selling groceries, they’re talking about raising money for the cause of Zion to purchase lands. And so what they do, according to the will of the Lord as his agents, they are on his business. “And he hath set you to provide for his saints in these last days,” verse 30, “that they may obtain an inheritance in the land of Zion. And behold, I, the Lord, declare unto you, and my words are sure and shall not fail, that they shall obtain it. But all things must come to pass in their time.” The Lord seems to be saying here, you need to have your eye on the long game. Like the stuff you’re doing now is important, but it’s not going to come to pass immediately. You’re not going to see Zion immediately. What you’re doing matters, but keep the long game in view. Then he underscores this idea in verse 33, saying, “Wherefore, be not weary in welldoing, for ye are laying the foundation of a great work. And out of small things proceedeth that which is great.” The Lord is inviting several people to do several different things, and everyone’s going to play a part in doing these small things that helps lay the foundation for a great thing.

Scott Woodward:
In this context, he’s clearly talking about the building up of Zion in Missouri. But, Casey, I remember as a teenager, I remember printing that verse out, verse 33, and sticking it on my wall and getting strength from that, getting hope from that. Like, okay, just one more day. Just put one foot in front of the other. You are laying the foundation of a great work. Small and simple things are going to lay the foundation for a a great life. Just keep the commandments today. Just do your best today to be kind to somebody. As a parent, that’s taken on more meaning. You might be weary in well-doing as a parent. All of us can relate to that. But you’re laying the foundation of a great work for these kids’ lives. And so keep doing the small things out of which proceeds that which is great. The application of verse 33 is so awesome in so many ways. Every missionary out there knows what being weary in well-doing feels like. Keep going elders and sisters, because you’re laying the foundation of a great work. And out of the small, daily things you’re doing, will proceed that which is great.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah, and I think it’s continued on in verse 34 with this key statement, “The Lord requireth the heart and a willing mind; and the willing and obedient shall eat of the good of the land of Zion in these last days.” So we tend to sometimes do what happened anciently, which is get caught up in small commandments and measure our personal worth based on how many minutes of scripture study we do, or metrics like that where the Lord says, Hey, what I’m really looking for is a person who gives me their heart and their mind that’s willing to do the things that I’ve asked them to do. And he contrasts this by saying, “The rebellious,” this is verse 35, “shall be cut off out of the land of Zion, and shall be sent away, and not inherit the land. For verily I say that the rebellious are not of the blood of Ephraim, and shall be plucked out.”

Scott Woodward:
Wait, why is he bringing up Ephraim here? How’s that relevant to the whole Zion project?

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah, this is a deep-cut Old Testament idea, and it’s found throughout the Doctrine and Covenants. And it’s a sacred idea placed into very powerful things that we do in the Church, like patriarchal blessings and similar things. The scriptures are filled with promises made to ancient figures, particularly Ephraim, who’s the son of Joseph and the birthright child of Israel. That’s designated in places like 1 Chronicles 5:1-2 and Jeremiah 31:9. Moses, for example, gave a blessing to the children of Ephraim, saying, “His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh.” That’s Deuteronomy 33:17. And so anciently, there was this birthright promise made to Ephraim. And the Doctrine and Covenants, in particular, speaks about blessings given to the descendants of Ephraim. The Lord identifies the Book of Mormon as the record of the stick of Ephraim. That’s in Section 27:5. And a revelation given shortly after this one spoke of the other tribes of Israel, quote, “Bringing forth their rich treasures unto the children of Ephraim, my servants.”

Casey Griffiths:
That’s Doctrine and Covenants 133:30. Now, this idea of birthright is definitely scriptural, but needs to be balanced against the idea that, particularly in the Book of Genesis, almost every time the idea of a birthright comes up, it gets flipped on its head, where someone is supposed to be the birthright child, but the Lord goes with the worthier child. So if we were doing Jacob and Esau, Esau is the oldest child in the birthright, but Jacob is the worthier child. Same thing with Joseph and all of his brothers. Joseph is not the oldest child, and therefore not the birthright child, but he becomes the worthiest. We need to keep in mind that though there are blessings made to those who are descended from Ephraim or who are adopted to him, Ephraim is considered the birthright tribe of the tribe of Israel. We need to keep in mind that the Lord does not refer to the descendants of Ephraim as rulers, but as servants.

Scott Woodward:
So when the Lord is saying here in Section 64:36, that the rebellious are not of the blood of Ephraim will be plucked out, is he saying essentially, you’re losing your place in the covenant group that’s going to lead the house of Israel to glory, to preparation for the Second Coming, something like that?

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. It’s again balancing this idea of birthright blessings, that we get blessings because our ancestors did good things and asked for the Lord to bless us. But those blessings are always countered by our personal righteousness and commitment. In fact, one thing that I would emphasize here, too, is that though the Lord is using literal terminology, you don’t have to literally be a descendant of Ephraim. We won’t get into those weeds, basically. Many are adopted into the tribe of Ephraim, and the Lord really doesn’t distinguish between those that are literal descendants and those that are adopted in the way he provides blessings to his children. The promises made to the fathers are important, but in the end, the Lord is reiterating here, Hey, what really sets you apart is if you’re willing to give me your heart and a willing mind.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It’s more about your heart and your mind than it is about your specific bloodline. He’s talking about this in terms of loyalty to the kingdom rather than DNA testing, something like that. Okay, let’s go on to verse 37. The Lord says, “Behold, I, the Lord, have made my church in these last days like unto a judge sitting on a hill, or in a high place, to judge the nations.” Okay, does that mean that Church members are set up to become really judgmental of their neighbors? No. Listen to what he says next. He says, “For it shall come to pass that the inhabitants of Zion shall judge all things pertaining to Zion.” Okay. So this is about becoming judges of all things in the realm of Zion itself. “And liars and hypocrites shall be proved by them, and they who are not apostles and prophets shall be known.” False prophets will be detected by them. “And even the bishop, who is a judge and his counselors, if they are not faithful in their stewardships shall be condemned, and others shall be planted in their stead.” Okay, so let’s talk about this for a second.

Scott Woodward:
What does it look like that Church members will judge the nations as pertaining to the things of Zion? This can take on a lot of different looks. The immediate image that comes into my mind, Casey, right here, is I talked to my missionary son a couple of weeks ago, and he said, Dad, I just did my very first baptismal interview. I said, How did it go? He said, It was a lot of pressure, but it was really cool. Here, my 19-year-old son was making a judgment call as to whether or not this person was ready to be baptized into the kingdom of God on Earth, the Zion people. And he got to make that call. Like, it’s the inhabitants of Zion that get to judge all things pertaining to Zion for those on the outside who want to come on the inside. And the Lord says, It’s those who are on the inside who will judge those also on the inside as to whether or not they get to stay. Even the bishop, Bishop Partridge here, is being told, like, your membership here is contingent upon your faithfulness. If you’re not faithful in your stewardship, then others can be planted in your stead.

Scott Woodward:
There will be judgments. We call those disciplinary councils or councils of love. They’ve changed different names over time, but there’s judgment within, and there’s kind of gatekeeper judges on the outside who interview people to come into the Church. And so it’s got to have at least as much to do with that as anything else.

Casey Griffiths:
Well, it feels like that scripture in the Sermon on the Mount, “Judge not that ye be not judged,” gets quoted a lot by people, and it’s good counsel. I mean, being judgmental can be really harmful to your spiritual health. At the same time, too, if we’re looking at the scriptures as a whole, there’s a lot of places where the Saints are told to judge. For instance, I’m looking at the Book of Mormon, 3 Nephi 27, “Know ye that ye shall be judges of this people, according to the judgment which I shall give unto you, which shall be just. Therefore, what manner of men ought ye to be? Verily I say unto you, even as I am.” So the Lord commands them to judge.

Scott Woodward:
In the context there, he’s talking to the leaders of the people in 3 Nephi.

Casey Griffiths:
You’re going to act in my stead. And urging the Saints to resolve their own differences rather than looking to outside sources. This is in the New Testament. Paul writes, “Know ye not that we shall judge the world? Know ye not that we shall judge angels?” That’s in 1 Corinthians 6:2-3. In both these cases, the Savior and Paul use the promise of a future judgment to motivate the Saints to live a virtuous life so that they can assist the Savior in judging the world without being hypocrites. Now, balance all this with the teaching found in several places, John 5, 2 Nephi 9:41, that the Savior is the judge of all men. But the Saints are called to assist in acting as his servants on earth to determine worthiness before ordinances like baptism, sealings, and other covenants can be extended. Now, in all things, the Savior seeks a fair judgment for people based on their circumstances, light, and knowledge. And I would say that to your son like, Hey, you’re not carrying out a final judgment. You’re not saying if this person is going to the celestial, terrestrial, telestial kingdom, but the Savior is asking you to judge if they’re ready to be baptized or to judge if they’re doing the sort of things that they’re supposed to do.

Casey Griffiths:
Sometimes we take the idea of not judging to such an extreme degree that we see a person selling drugs to five-year-olds and we’re like, Well, I’m not going to judge. Well, no, that’s objectively bad behavior, and it should be halted, and that’s a judgment. But we’re not making a final judgment about anybody because that’s just not our purview. In fact, I really like this quote from Joseph Smith. He said, “It has been the design of Jehovah from the commencement of this world, and is his purpose now to regulate the affairs of the world in his own time, to stand as head of the universe and take the reins of government into his own hand. When that is done, judgment will be administered in righteousness. Anarchy and confusion will be destroyed, and nations will learn war no more.” So yes, we’re not supposed to issue final judgments on people. That’s just not our right. But intermediate judgments, judging if this is good behavior or bad behavior, if this is the sort of environment you want to keep yourself in, we have to do that all the time. So don’t go too extreme either direction. Don’t get too judgmental, but also keep in mind that the Lord is asking us at times to act as his stewards in making judgments and good decisions about where people are at.

Scott Woodward:
Every time we go in for a temple recommend interview, this is a micro, intermediate judgment, right? We participate in that all the time. My current calling puts me in a spot to do temple recommend interviews, and I will often say to those who come in, I’ll say, Hey, there’s no right or wrong answers here. This is a sacred moment that we get to share. I’m just going to ask you a few questions and let you honestly assess yourself before the Lord. Honestly, this feels really sacred for me to be able to be here and witness this moment. So thank you, right? Then I’ll ask them the questions. It is this micro judgment moment. And based on their answers, I can say, I think you’re good to go, or I can say, You know what? Thank you for your honest answers. Let’s talk about what maybe the next steps are to get you ready for the temple. It’s just this this beautiful moment of judgment. We use the word judge really harshly, typically, culturally. We don’t like people are judgmental and people are judging, but that’s not at all what the Lord is talking about here. This is things pertaining to Zion.

Scott Woodward:
Those in Zion should judge those things in order to keep us on track to building the Kingdom of God on Earth in preparation for Jesus to come. That’s the mission. So let’s stay on track with that. And anything that starts to detract from that, any behaviors that start to percolate in the Church, let’s address it and let’s move on.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah, I always go back to that idea that Joseph Smith at one occasion said, The truth is made manifest in proving contraries. And you do have to kind of learn to walk a walk between this idea of not judging, but also exercising righteous judgment. And again, the way this section ends kind of sets up this idea of, well, to be a light to the world, but to also be a servant to all people. The Lord says, verse 41, “Zion shall flourish, and the glory of the Lord shall be upon her; she shall be an ensign unto the people, and there shall come unto her out of every nation under heaven. And the day shall come when the nations of the earth shall tremble because of her, and shall fear because of her terrible ones. The Lord hath spoken it. Amen.” Again, another dichotomy here that Zion is a place of refuge and safety, but is seen as powerful to the nations of the Earth, that Zion is a place where you can come and feel safe, but at the same time, too, as a place where there is law and order, where people keep the commandments and strive to be righteous, and that gives them power in the eyes of the world.

Casey Griffiths:
So the assurance given by the Lord in this revelation is basically that Zion is going to flourish. There’s a lot of trials and persecution ahead, but he’s giving them the assurance that the end of the story is a happy one. The concept of Zion is going to expand beyond just building the city in Missouri that the early Saints were asked to build, to provide a home for the Saints, to the recognition of Zion as a people around the globe. He talks about all nations. Zion is flourishing whenever we build a new temple, whenever a stake is created or a new member gets baptized. In fact, decades after this prophecy was given to Joseph Smith, his nephew, Joseph F. Smith, who also serves as President of the Church, gave this fulfillment. He said, “Zion is indeed flourishing on the hills, and it is rejoicing on the mountains. And we also, who compose it, are gathering and assembling together unto the place appointed. I now ask this congregation if they cannot see that this prediction, which was made many years before the idea prevailed at all among this people, that we should ever migrate or gather out of these mountain valleys,” he’s speaking from Utah, “has been and is literally being fulfilled. If there were no other prophecy uttered by Joseph Smith, fulfillment of which could be pointed to, this alone would be sufficient to entitle him to the claim of being a true prophet.”

Casey Griffiths:
Now, that prophecy is given over a century ago, but I would say even more so today. When Joseph F. was speaking, they were talking about Saints existing in places like Hawaii and Canada. Now we’re talking about Latter-day Saint temples being built in places like Dubai, in locations like Kiribati and Ghana, and all kinds of places around the world that I think in 1831, nobody would have said would have been possible, but that’s happened. So millions of more people are making covenants and Zion is flourishing.

Scott Woodward:
So do you think it’s possible that not even Joseph Smith understood the full nature of this prophecy? It’s clear that in 1831, everyone thought they were talking about Missouri. And you and I have debated whether or not, if Missouri will ever be center place again. But Joseph F. Smith seems to be moving on from that and saying, this is literally fulfilled in Utah. And we’re seeing it spread out from Utah. Joseph clearly thought this was about Missouri. But is the nature of prophecy such that even the revelator themselves who utter the prophecy may not fully understand how it’s actually going to be fulfilled. You get what I’m asking?

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. And prophecy is often fulfilled in surprising ways. Like, when Isaiah prophesied about a voice speaking from the dust, I don’t think anybody said, Oh, yeah, someone’s going to find gold plates in a hill in upstate New York and translate them and produce a new book of scripture. If you called that one, way to go. At the same time, too, I don’t see why both can’t be true. The idea that there is going to be this city built by the Saints in Missouri, but also that Zion is going to spread among all the nations and flourish upon the hills. Again, Joseph Smith has his world perspective that he’s in, which traveling to Missouri is a huge, arduous task. And Joseph F. Smith has the world in perspective he’s in, where traveling to a place like Hawaii or Europe, he’s the first Church president to go to Europe, is a big deal. But today we have prophets and apostles traveling all over the world to Australia, and India, and Africa, and South America. I don’t know if anybody had a grand enough vision to see that coming, except the Lord speaking through Joseph Smith in these verses.

Scott Woodward:
Very interesting. Interesting. Okay, let’s head to controversies. Back in the early verses, the Lord said that we are to forgive all men. And then he said, If we don’t, there remaineth in us the greater sin. Casey, help me out with that one. That sounds a little controversial because some humans have done really horrible things to other humans. Is the Lord saying here that if those victims don’t turn around and forgive those who hurt them so deeply, that they are the greater sinner than the ones who hurt them?

Casey Griffiths:
This can be really difficult because there are some very serious, violating sins out there that it can be really difficult, and I don’t think the Lord is saying here that forgiveness is just, Hey, snap your fingers and you’re better instantly. It can take a long time to heal from the trauma inflicted upon others. At the same time, too, I think what he’s acknowledging here is that if we don’t forgive, ultimately, it hurts us. I used to teach with someone who said not forgiving someone is like drinking poison and expecting it to hurt the other guy. It doesn’t mean that you say what they did was right or that they are a good person. In fact, in the verses immediately following that teaching about forgiving, the Lord says, no, they have to be held accountable for what they did. So I wouldn’t say that someone that’s been wronged would say, well, I forgive them so we don’t need to go to court, if it was a legal offense or anything like that. But the Lord is saying that if we can’t forgive people, then ultimately it destroys us. It eats away at us. And the sin, which you’ve been the victim of, becomes something that can be very, very destructive to you.

Casey Griffiths:
I think that’s the angle he’s coming from. What do you think?

Scott Woodward:
Yeah, I really like how he phrases it in verse 10 and 11. He says, “I, the Lord, will forgive whom I will forgive.” So the Lord might not forgive everybody, but he says, “But of you it is required to forgive all men.” And here’s what he says you should say in your heart, “You ought to say in your heart,” no matter what anybody’s done to you, no matter how grievous it is, “say in your heart – let God judge between me and thee, and reward thee according to thy deeds.” The subtle subtext here, maybe it’s not so subtle, is the Lord is saying, Don’t try to play God. That’s my job. Your job is to forgive. My job is to pass final judgments. And so I will decide who receives ultimate forgiveness. But in your heart, what I’m asking you to do, and I think this goes with what you were just saying, is I’m asking you to forgive. But I think you’re right here, Casey, that there is something corrosive about holding a grudge so deeply. It’s kind of antithetical to the nature of God and Christ to say, I hope you burn in hell because of what you did to me.

Scott Woodward:
That’s a very human emotion, but that’s God’s call. It’s not our call. And so to put us in a place where we would say, I hope God does not forgive you. I hope you burn. It does not partake of the Christ spirit here. What I’m getting from this is God is saying, Let me do my job. And what I’m asking you to do as a disciple is to have compassion and to forgive and trust me. Trust me to lay out the correct final judgment for these people.

Casey Griffiths:
Well said. All right, let me bring up another controversy. There’s a verse in Section 64 that could have negative connotations if it’s misunderstood. Verse 36, and we talked about this a little bit, “The rebellious are not of the blood of Ephraim, wherefore they shall be plucked out.” Now, a controversy could be here that talking about blood seems to imply this idea of lineage determining a person’s righteousness, and sometimes was misused by not just members of the Church, but by a lot of people to say that there are certain lineages that are naturally more righteous than other lineages. That could be misconstrued and can be dangerous, too. In fact, I had a young lady email me, and she was adopted, and she was talking about how she’d had some well-meaning, but maybe misguided members of the Church say that, Hey, if you make covenants with God, your DNA is literally changed so that you become the blood of Ephraim. And she felt really uncomfortable with that because, you know, she wanted to do a DNA test to find out where her birth mother was, to find out her background and things like that. How literally should we take the idea of blood when it comes to our lineage?

Scott Woodward:
Well, it’s interesting because there is some precedent in the early Church of Church leaders making statements like, When you get baptized, your blood literally changes. But, Casey, we did a whole series on trying to think through challenging issues. One of the issues we addressed was, what’s official Church doctrine and what’s not? And the bedrock for finding true, solid doctrine is the standard works. Is it consistently taught throughout the scriptures? That’s got to be your first question. And nowhere in the scriptures is there any teaching that your blood literally changes when you get baptized, for instance. Notwithstanding, there are statements from Church leaders who have made such comments. But I would measure those against the standard works, and the standard works do not say that. Instead, they say stuff like this, and this is what I think is the truth of the matter. 2 Nephi 302, Nephi says, “Behold, I say unto you that as many of the Gentiles as will repent are the covenant people of the Lord, and as many of the Jews as will not repent shall be cast off; for the Lord covenanteth with none save it be those who repent.”

Scott Woodward:
You can see the same idea over in 3 Nephi 30:2, coincidentally, where Jesus is speaking, and he tells the Gentiles, those are non-Jews, to “Turn ye from your wicked ways and repent of your evil doings.” Then he lists their evil doings. And then he says, “That ye may receive remission of your sins and be filled with the Holy Ghost, that ye may be numbered with my people who are of the house of Israel.” The whole idea of Israel and Ephraim and all of that did originally start with blood. We’re talking about the family of Jacob, right? But at the time of Jesus’s resurrection, there began a new era, a new age, a new covenant, he called it, where anyone who is baptized can become part of that group, part of the house of Israel. That’s being borne out here in 3 Nephi 30:2. So the main concept here is covenantal rather than lineal. That’s what’s being born out here in Section 64, when the Lord says, “The rebellious are not of the blood of Ephraim,” that means you’re not doing the covenant thing. You’re not living the covenant way. Therefore, you’ll be plucked out.

Scott Woodward:
He said, You’ll be excommunicated. Your membership will be canceled. All the different ways that scripture has to say that and ways that we talk about it today. The idea is if you’re part of God’s covenantal people, it doesn’t matter what your lineage is, you’re Israel. And if you’re not living the covenantal way, then you’re not Israel in that sense. It’s just the scripture way of talking about God’s covenantal family, those who will inherit the Earth.

Casey Griffiths:
It can be really important to be proud of your family and lineage. I’m Welsh. I’m proud of that. But it’s one of those things that, if taken to extremes, really can cause major, major problems. If I was turning being Welsh into my whole personality or asserting that my lineage naturally makes me more righteous, that it’s more important than my choices, that I’m predisposed to the blessings of God, we might be misunderstanding the scripture, which again flips that idea on its head again and again, that you can just be born into being a chosen person. The scriptures seem to be written specifically to push against ideas like that, to say, yes, there are blessings made to fathers, but the real blessings come when we demonstrate our own commitment to the Lord and to the gospel. So keep those ideas in tension with each other and don’t err too far one way or the other, and we will be okay. All right, so let’s talk consequences. Section 64 is a unique mixture of this. We’re expecting Zion to come, but we also have to live the teachings of Jesus Christ in our life. So the Lord states that his goal is to help them overcome the world.

Casey Griffiths:
That’s why he’s so patient and compassionate with us. He commands the Saints to forgive one another, but he also warns against consequences that come if they’re disobedient to commandments, stating that those who continue down that road will continue to be cursed. And you can see this in the way that he speaks to Ezra Booth, who’s not seeking to repent, and people like Isaac Morley, who are seeking to repent and do better.

Scott Woodward:
The section also emphasizes, I think, the Lord’s power and ability to direct his work, even through seemingly weak instruments. He acknowledges Joseph is weak, Joseph has sinned. But guess what? I, the Lord, am merciful and I forgive sins. Remember always who you’re working with here. I’m the Lord. I have compassion on you. Let’s continue to repent and do better. We can do this. We can bring Zion. That beautiful, encouraging spirit is there with the assurance that the Lord is in control, that Zion will succeed. It will flourish. It’s going to take time. But be not weary and well doing because this work matters and your seemingly small contributions will make a difference. Keep it up. Despite your challenges, despite your imperfections, continue to have faith in the Lord. Be patient with each other, be patient in the work, and the plan will continue to unfold until Zion is ultimately built up in glory and redeemed. So keep your eye on the prize, right. Become one heart, one mind. You’re not there yet. Keep forgiving each other. One heart, one mind. And trust me that this thing is ultimately going to come to pass, which I think does give the Saints at this time some of the encouragement that they needed because they do the things the Lord has commanded in here, like selling the farm, like Newel K. Whitney and Sidney Gilbert being asked to do what they were asked to do at the store, and Frederick Williams with his farm.

Scott Woodward:
Like there’s a lot of things that people will take from this section, and they will do their small part to help build Zion. So that, Casey, concludes our part one for this week, Section 64. Stay tuned. Part 2, Section 65 and 66, coming at you.

Casey Griffiths:
All right. We’ll pick it up there.