Scott Woodward:
Death is not the worst thing that can happen to you. I’d say the stakes are pretty high here, Casey.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah, you have successfully raised the stakes.

Scott Woodward:
The Lord is giving a really, really strong and beautiful why to repentance. But if you take away Easter, we lose the entire New Testament. In fact, we lose all of Christianity. It is the ultimate big deal.

Casey Griffiths:
Did you know there are other resurrected beings and that they’re interacting with people?

Scott Woodward:
So Jesus is the firstfruits of the resurrection as the Bible proclaims. First doesn’t mean only. The scriptural story is the opposite of what we sometimes say culturally. It’s about resurrected people being here on this Earth and ruling it with Jesus.

Casey Griffiths:
One day we’re going to see resurrection as natural as birth, that it’s just a process in our existence that we go through.

Scott Woodward:
All week long, we get to study Easter, and Casey, we came prepared. I got my Easter purplish shirt on with some purple lighting, and you wore your nice pastel blue and yellow.

Casey Griffiths:
I didn’t go as all out as you. You literally have mood lighting. And I know our audio listeners can’t see this, but it is really spectacular, Scott. Well done.

Scott Woodward:
Hopefully it comes out in our voices for our audio-only listeners. But we are excited to talk Easter today and to really kind of give an emphasis to what do we learn about Easter? What insights, what additional clarity and evidences do we have about Easter in terms of the Doctrine and Covenants, in terms of Church history, the Restoration? So I’m very excited about today, Casey.

Casey Griffiths:
I love it. Like last year, we did the whole Holy Week thing. You know, we did Palm Sunday and walked through all the stuff. We even added in a special one from the Doctrine and Covenants, which was Salvation Saturday, where you talk about Jesus in the spirit world and you do Section 138, and…

Scott Woodward:
Spirit World Saturday.

Casey Griffiths:
That’s an even better name for it. But I think for today, we’re having a specific focus on one concept or idea, correct?

Scott Woodward:
Yes. Easter. What does the Doctrine and Covenants and our Church’s history contribute to our understanding of the significance of Easter and the resurrection of Jesus Christ?

Casey Griffiths:
So it’s Easter Doctrine and Covenants style. Is that what I’m garnering here?

Scott Woodward:
Exactly. Easter doctrine. Now, we’re not going to pull back from quoting some New Testament today, but we’re also going to do a deep dive into the Doctrine and Covenants. So where should we start?

Casey Griffiths:
The biggest question, like, what’s the big deal about Easter? How come the Church only takes two days out of the year to commemorate and that is Christmas and Easter? And it seems like Christmas is the bigger one, but what’s the case for making Easter a special, not just day, but season of the year for Latter-day Saints?

Scott Woodward:
One of my favorite New Testament scholars, N. T. Wright, said, in fact, Elder Gary Stevenson quoted him a couple of General Conferences ago saying this, where N. T. Wright says, “If you take away Christmas, we lose a couple of chapters in the front end of Matthew, and that’s it. But if you take away Easter, we lose the entire New Testament. In fact, we lose all of Christianity,” he said. And so I think I’m really loving what our Church is doing now with this emphasis on Easter because it is the ultimate big deal. It doesn’t get bigger than Easter. Although, like you said, we tend to celebrate Christmas more and bigger and go more all out. But, Casey, I think there’s a very, very strong case to make that Easter is an even bigger deal.

Casey Griffiths:
Our Church isn’t as bad as we’re making it sound. We usually have a General Conference around Easter where a number of Church leaders, including usually the President of the Church, gives a talk centered on the resurrection of Christ and why Christ and his resurrection are what we’re all about. They’re at the center of everything that we do.

Scott Woodward:
The resurrection of Jesus Christ is at the heart and soul and center of the entire Christian message, right? Like, in fact, it’s no hyperbole to say that the whole truth or falsity of Christianity hinges upon the truth or falsity of the resurrection of Jesus Christ, right? I mean, the apostle Paul puts it really starkly. Here we go. Let’s quote some New Testament. He says in 1 Corinthians 15, a fantastic Easter reflection. In verse 14 and 19, he says, “If Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.” That’s exactly right. Like, if Christ didn’t actually to resurrect, Casey, then everything we are doing is vain. All this faith, all this effort we’re putting into following Christ, like, if there’s no real resurrection after all of this, it’s an exercise in vanity.

Casey Griffiths:
We’re talking about all of Christianity here, but especially Latter-day Saints. So I’m going to see your 1 Corinthians and raise you a Book of Mormon reference. Moroni 7:41, the Prophet Mormon stated, “And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold, I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise.” So, Mormon’s putting it all in there, too. We don’t have any hope if we don’t really believe in the resurrection through Jesus Christ and his atoning sacrifice.

Scott Woodward:
Man, that’s Bible and Book of Mormon uniting to testify that all of our hopes center in the hope of Christ’s resurrection. So I’d say the stakes are pretty high here, Casey.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah, you have successfully raised the stakes.

Scott Woodward:
So I guess that leads to the next question, which is, What’s the best evidence that the resurrection of Jesus Christ is real? With such high stakes, we ought to take that question really seriously, right?

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, the answer to that question that I would give is the best emphasis, and the Bible is emphatic about this, is witnesses. People that saw Jesus Jesus Christ. This is how it begins. The Apostles were eyewitnesses of Jesus’s literal, physical resurrection, and their job was to go forth. Apostle means “one sent forth” and tell everybody about it. For instance, Peter gives this wonderful speech in the Book of Acts, where he says, this is what we are talking about. He gets up, this is Acts 10:39-42, and says, “And we are witnesses of all things which he did in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem, whom they slew and hanged on a tree. Him God raised up the third day and shewed him openly, not to all people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. And he commanded us to preach unto the people and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the judge of quick and dead.” So Peter’s the whole thing. We’re witnesses of the resurrection. We saw him after he was resurrected.

Casey Griffiths:
That’s what our message is to share with the world he lives.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah, that actually reminds me of one of my very favorite resurrection quotes. This is from Elder D. Todd Christofferson. He gave this as a devotional of BYU-Idaho, back in 2013. Listen to this Casey, it so good. He says, “It is now and has always been the role of his Apostles and prophets to bear a sure witness of the literal resurrection of Jesus Christ. His resurrection confirms the divinity of the Savior and the reality of his Atonement and its power to redeem us from death and sin. If the resurrection of Jesus Christ is a literal fact, all that is said and written about him as being nothing more than a gifted and charismatic mortal is so much hot air and wasted paper. The arguments of atheists and humanists become meaningless. The search for purpose and meaning in life is at an end. The resurrection of Christ changes everything.”

Casey Griffiths:
Amen.

Scott Woodward:
That’s, I mean, this is do or die. Either Jesus rose from the dead and there is a life after this and a glorious, beautiful future, or there’s not. And the Apostles of Jesus, both anciently in the scriptures, like you just read from Peter and modern Apostles, unitedly testify today that he lives.

Scott Woodward:
And some of them even say, like Peter did, We saw him. We ate with him. We were with him after his resurrection. I agree with you. The best evidence that the resurrection is real is eyewitnesses. And in fact, that’s actually built in to Jesus’s method of taking this message out to the world is to give certain people that special witness and then sending them out to testify to the world.

Casey Griffiths:
And I might add, too, that it’s not just the Apostles. If we’re walking through everything, the first person that he appears to is not an apostle. It’s Mary Magdalene at tomb. Then he appears to two disciples on the road to Emmaus. That’s in Luke 24. Paul notes “he was seen of five hundred brethren at once.” And 3 Nephi 17 talks about him appearing and showing his wounds and letting them feel the nail prints in his hands and his feet and the spear wound in his side to “two thousand and five hundred souls that did consist of men, women, and children.” That’s 3 Nephi 17:25. Quite a lot of witnesses, the Apostles, of course, being specifically ordained, but the Savior was more than willing to manifest himself to other people so that they could know the resurrection was a reality.

Scott Woodward:
That’s right. The Apostles seemed to have a special charge to take that witness and bear it to the world, right, to be special witnesses of the name of Christ unto all the world, is how Section 107 phrases it, right. Whereas these 2,500 souls in 3 Nephi, or these 500 that Paul is talking about in the New Testament, apparently they had no special commission to go and take that out to the world and to shout it from the rooftops and to tell everyone about it. But maybe that’s the only distinction here between the Apostles and these others who also got to have that witness. And Casey, this isn’t just ancient scripture, right? This isn’t just the Bible and the Book of Mormon, right? This continues into our day, too, doesn’t it?

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. One of the things that Latter-day Saints have to contribute to the conversation surrounding Jesus’s resurrection is that we not only have all these ancient witnesses, and we’re already contributing because the Book of Mormon contributes that 2,500 men, women, and children witnessed Christ. But we have modern witnesses. I mean, people that have lived in the last 200 years that have seen Jesus Christ and places where Jesus has physically appeared get added to the register of people who have seen and can bear witness that Christ is alive, that he has been resurrected, that he’s back to life. The first one is obvious, right? We’ve already spent a considerable amount of time talking about it, but that is the First Vision. Joseph Smith’s 1832 account, the earliest account, describes the Lord’s very first words to him. Joseph Smith writes, “I saw the Lord, and he spake unto me saying, Joseph, my son, thy sins are forgiven thee. Go thy way, walk in my statutes, keep my commandments. Behold, I am the Lord of glory. I was crucified for the world that all those who believe on my name may have eternal life.” So the Savior’s very first thing, I know who you are, I forgive your sins, I want you to know that I died on behalf of the world so that everyone can have eternal life. It’s just a witness of the resurrection, which we sometimes discuss the First Vision as a witness of the Godhead or the nature of God or the reality of God. But it’s as much in Joseph Smith’s mind about the resurrection that Jesus Christ lives.

Scott Woodward:
I don’t think any of the other accounts have that language from Jesus, do they? When he says, I was crucified for the world, that that’s part of his opening message in the earliest account, I think is very significant.

Casey Griffiths:
One area I want to step into also is Kirtland. The next block that we tackle after this is Doctrine and Covenants 37–38, which introduces us to the Kirtland era of the Church. And if you’ve ever been to Kirtland, there are several places you can drive to within a day where Jesus appeared to people, either physically or in vision. And so, if it’s okay, I’m just going to focus in on Kirtland and all the people that Jesus appeared to in Kirtland. And I wanted to start with one that was kind of relatable. I also wanted one that was a woman, a female witness of the resurrection, because that’s where the witnesses of the resurrection start in the New Testament with a woman, Mary Magdalene. This is another Mary, but her name is Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner. She was a young girl who lived in Kirtland and was there when the missionaries first came through, became really interested, and then was there when Joseph Smith gathered to Kirtland after he was commanded to as well. She went to a farm owned by Isaac Morley. This is still a Church historic site you can go and visit. And she talks about getting there and the Smith family had just arrived.

Casey Griffiths:
She even says, “I was attending a meeting with the whole Smith family, from the old gentleman to his wife and all the sons and daughters.” That’s the way she describes it. “As we stood there talking to them, Joseph and Martin Harris came in.” And she said, “Joseph looked around and said, There are enough here to hold a little meeting. Joseph looked around very solemnly. It was the first time some of them had ever seen him,” she recalls. “They got a board and put it across two chairs to make seats. Martin Harris sat on a little box at Joseph’s feet. They sang and prayed, and Joseph began to speak to us.” So Joseph Smith is preaching, and this is where it starts to become supernatural. At the same time, too, I think this is relatable to Church members today. She says, “As he began to speak very solemnly and very earnestly, all at once, his countenance changed, and he stood mute. Those who looked at him that day said there was a searchlight within him over every part of his body. I never saw anything like it on the earth. I could not take my eyes off of him. He got so white that anyone who saw him would have thought he was transparent.

Casey Griffiths:
“I remember I thought I could almost see the bones through the flesh. I have been through many changes since, but that is photographed on my brain. I shall remember it and keep it in my mind’s eye as long as I remain upon the earth.”

Scott Woodward:
So she’s saying as he was speaking, he stopped speaking, and then he, like, starts to almost light up from the inside out?

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. She uses various terms like a searchlight that she almost thought he was transparent and could the bones through his flesh, that something unusual, something supernatural was occurring. And then she talks about Joseph Smith identifying the cause of this. So she said, “he looked over the congregation as if to pierce every heart, said he, Do you know who has been in our midst? One of the Smiths said, An angel of the Lord. Martin Harris said, It was our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Joseph put his hands down on Martin and said, God revealed that to you. Brothers and sisters, the Spirit of God has in your midst. The Savior has been here this night, and I want you to remember it. There is a veil over your eyes, for you could not endure to look upon him.”

Scott Woodward:
And her evidence that he was telling the truth is, I just saw the prophet of God, like, light up from the inside out. Is that, am I hearing her witness correctly?

Casey Griffiths:
She goes on to say, “I never took my eyes off his countenance. Then he knelt down and prayed, I’ve never heard anything like it before or since. I felt that he was talking to our Lord, and that power rested down upon us in every fiber of our bodies, we received a sermon from the lips of the representative of God.” Okay, so we’ve got the First Vision. We’ve got Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner. Let’s keep going. Who else in and around the Kirtland area saw Jesus Christ.

Scott Woodward:
In February of 1832, Joseph and Sidney will move out to the Hiram, Ohio, area because of the generosity of John and Elsa Johnson family. And so while they’re there, Joseph is working on the Bible translation with Sidney Rigdon, and they come across a passage, John 5:29, that talks about the resurrection. They got a little impression from the Spirit to tweak the language just a little, and that small tweak didn’t seem to satisfy Joseph. And so they continue to discuss it, him and Sidney. And as they did so, he said, “The eyes of our understanding were opened and the glory of the Lord shone round about.” And then he and Sidney together have this experience. He says, “And we beheld the glory of the Son on the right-hand of the Father and received of his fullness. And we saw the holy angels and them who are sanctified before his throne, worshiping God and the Lamb who worship him forever and ever.” And then the most famous line, which we all have heard, is when he says, “And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony last of all which we,” that’s Joseph and Sidney Rigdon, jointly, “give of him, that he lives.”

Scott Woodward:
How do they know? He goes on to say, “For we saw him even on the right-hand of God. We heard the voice bearing record that he is the son of God,” et cetera. And sohat witness is actually recorded in our scriptures, right? That’s in Doctrine and Covenants 76. You can go read all about that. That’s one of my favorites. That’s early. The Church is what, not quite two years old. This is 1832. And Joseph and Sidney, jointly witnessing the resurrected Lord right there in Hiram, Ohio. That one came in a vision. There were others in the room who did not see the vision, but Joseph and Sidney jointly got to see the resurrected Lord with the Father.

Casey Griffiths:
Here’s another one that I really love. Same setting, Isaac Morley Farm. This is where Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner has her experience. But in June of 1831, and we’re going to spend a little more time talking about this, I’m just highlighting something that happened. There was a special gathering of all the priesthood in the Church, of all the men who held the priesthood, I should specify. And at this meeting, three men, Joseph Smith, Lyman Wight, and Harvey Whitlock, have a vision of the Father and the Son. Levi Hancock, who’s there, recorded that Joseph Smith was speaking to the elders when he—this is Levi’s words—”stepped out onto the floor and said, I now see God and Jesus Christ as his right-hand, let them kill me, I should not feel death as I am now.” Then John Whitmer, who’s the official Church historian who’s here now, he records in his history, “The Spirit of the Lord fell upon Joseph in an unusual manner. He prophesied many things that I have not written. After he had prophesied, he laid his hands upon Lyman Wight , ordained him to the high priesthood after the holy order of God, and the Spirit fell upon Lyman, and he prophesied concerning the coming of Christ.

Casey Griffiths:
“He saw the heavens opened, and the Son of Man sitting on the right-hand of the Father, making intercession for his brethren, the Saints. He said that God would work a work in these last days that tongue cannot express, and that the mind is not capable to conceive the glory of the Lord shone around.” So again, this little kind of humble setting, this little schoolhouse on the Isaac Morley farm, the assembly of priesthood there, several people, Joseph Smith, Harvey Whitlock, and Lyman Wight, all see a vision of Jesus Christ as well.

Scott Woodward:
Let me share another one that happens in the Newel K. Whitney store. If you go to Kirtland, that store is actually still there. This one happens March 1833, on the day that the First Presidency of the Church was organized. Joseph Smith recorded this in his journal. He said, “I exhorted the brethren to faithfulness and diligence in keeping the commandments of God, and gave much instruction for the benefit of the Saints, with a promise that the pure in heart should see a heavenly vision. And after remaining a short time in secret prayer, the promise was verified, for many present had the eyes of their understanding opened by the Spirit of God, so as to behold many things.” Then he says, “Many of the brethren saw a heavenly vision of the Savior, and concourses of angels, and many other things, of which each one has a record of what he saw.” We actually do have some of them who recorded this, Casey, which is so cool. For instance, one brother, Zebedee Coltrin, said that in the Newel K. Whitney store there, he saw the Savior, and he saw God the Father, which is super bonus. In fact, he describes God the Father as, quote, “Surrounded as with a flame of fire, which was so brilliant that I could not discover anything else but his person.

Scott Woodward:
“I saw his hands, his legs, his feet, his eyes, nose, mouth, head, and body in the shape and form of a perfect man. This appearance was so grand and overwhelming that it seemed I should melt down in his presence. And the sensation was so powerful that it thrilled through my whole system, and I felt it in the marrow of my bones.”

Casey Griffiths:
Another experience that happens in the same location, Whitney store. And by the way, this is a building that’s still there. You can go and be in the original structure. This is a guy named John Murdock. He’s buried in my parents’ hometown in Beaver, Utah. I’ve even taken my kids to his headstone and visited relatives down there. He’s in the Whitney store, and he describes this. He says, “The visions of my mind were opened and the eyes of my understanding were enlightened, and I saw the form of a man, most lovely. The visage of his face was sound and fair as the sun. His hair, a bright silver gray, curled in most majestic form. His eyes, a keen penetrating blue, and the the skin of his neck, a most beautiful white, and he was covered from the neck to the feet with a loose garment, pure white, whiter than any garment I’ve ever before seen. His countenance was most penetrating, yet the most lovely. And while I was endeavoring to comprehend the whole personage from head to feet, it slipped from me, and the vision was closed up. But it left on my mind the impression of love for months that I never before felt to that degree.”

Casey Griffiths:
This guy, John Murdock, is one of those sort of unsung heroes of the Doctrine and Covenants. He does pop up a little bit. There’s a section given to him, but his grave in Beaver is really humble. It’s just a little tiny grave. They have put a more modern marker next to it, but it’s not huge either. I remember taking my kids there and standing next to it and saying, You are standing on the grave of a person who saw Jesus Christ, a witness of the resurrection, saw a vision of Jesus Christ. Very, very neat.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah. Let’s do another one. This one happens over in the Kirtland Temple. Fast forward a couple of years now, it’s 1836. It’s January 21st. This is in the midst of the beginning, I should say, of what we’re going to call the Kirtland endowment, endowment of power. Part of the endowment of power that comes during these few months, from January to April, is an outpouring of heavenly manifestations. And one of the earliest ones happens here in January. They’re doing washings and anointings with one another, giving each other blessings. And in the midst of that, Joseph says, quote, “The heavens were opened upon us, and I beheld the celestial kingdom of God and the glory thereof. Whether in the body or out, I cannot tell. I saw the transcendent beauty of the gate through which the heirs of that kingdom will enter, which was like unto circling flames of fire. Also,” he says, “the blazing throne of God, whereon was seated the Father and the Son.” Then he goes on to talk about the beauty of that kingdom. But there’s another one right there, the Father and the Son in vision, he sees in the Kirtland temple. And this one is also recorded in our Doctrine and Covenants.

Scott Woodward:
Now, this is in Section 137.

Casey Griffiths:
This is a surprisingly late addition to the Doctrine and Covenants, because even though it happens in 1836, it’s not placed in the Doctrine and Covenants until 1981, placed in the Pearl of the Great Price two years before in ’79.

Casey Griffiths:
An amazing experience. And it also, and we’ll talk about this, is sort of the spark that lights the fire that inspires Joseph Smith to figure out how to do work for the dead, figure out what sealing power is for and what temples are for, because he sees the Savior, but he also sees his brother in the celestial kingdom alongside of him.

Scott Woodward:
We will do a deep dive analysis of this doctrinally, its implications, when we get to Section 137, but that’s a good teaser. Is there any hope for the dead who haven’t received Christ by the time they die? So more to come on that.

Casey Griffiths:
That is an actual appearance that happens even before the Kirtland temple is finished. They’re in the temple performing ordinances. In fact, I think Joseph Smith had just performed the Kirtland version of the endowment for his father, and this vision opens up. And you’ll note he sees his father in the celestial kingdom, meaning this is a vision of the future. He’s got time to save Alvin. He’s going to figure this out. I’m going to do one more, and this is kind of the granddaddy one. And it lines up so well with our Easter lesson because it takes place on Easter. The precise date is April 3, 1836, and it’s after the Kirtland temple has been dedicated. Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery retire to the Melchizedek priesthood pulpits in the temple. They lower the veils. These are different kinds of veils than the ones we’re used to in modern temples. This is just more of a partition to separate the room into smaller areas. So this is the version that’s found on the Joseph Smith Papers site. This is the earliest version. And you might notice a couple of minor differences here. Like, the version that’s in Doctrine and Covenants 110 was rewritten a little bit by Orson Pratt to be first-person.

Casey Griffiths:
This one is third-person, but they’re explaining what they saw, and I think probably the most significant one to happen in the Kirtland era. A lot of people push against this one a little bit because it wasn’t published until 1850s. It was a private history written by Joseph Smith, but there is tons of contemporary evidence that it was written down right then within a couple of hours of when it happened because people are talking about it. So here’s the earliest version of that revelation. Okay, it says, “The veil was taken from their minds, and the eyes of their understanding were opened. They saw the Lord standing upon the breastwork of the pulpit before them, and under his feet was a paved work of pure gold in color like amber. His eyes were as a flame of fire. The hair of his head was like the pure snow. His countenance shone above the brightness of the sun, and his voice was as the sound of the rushing of great waters, even the voice of Jehovah saying, I am the first and the last. I am he who liveth. I am he who was slain. I am your advocate with the Father.

Casey Griffiths:
“Behold, your sins are forgiven you. You are clean before me. Therefore, lift up your heads and rejoice. Let the hearts of your brethren rejoice, and let the hearts of all my people rejoice, who have, with their might, built this house to my name. For behold, I have accepted this house, and my name shall be here, and I will manifest myself to people in mercy in this house.” This is the granddaddy of Kirtland Christ appearances, because the other ones are clear, like we felt his presence or we saw a vision. But this seems to be a physical appearance similar to the ones that take place in the New Testament and the ones that are described in 3 Nephi, where they’re saying, Hey, we literally saw the breastwork of the pulpit changed because of the nearness of his presence. Like, this seems to be describing a visitation rather than a vision, though I don’t know where to draw the line between those two things, to be honest with you.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah, we talked about this with the First Vision, right? Was Joseph seeing it out there in front of him? Like we always see it in paintings or in movies, or was it happening, like, inside of his mind somehow? We’ve talked about how some of accounts say that he saw the light touching the leaves, and he thought that they were going to be consumed. And as far as he understood, it was happening out there, right? And this seems to be another example, although it begins by saying, “The veil was taken from our minds, and the eyes of our understanding were open.” That sounds like it’s just a vision. But then he starts to describe the breastwork of the pulpit under them and seeing under his feet and…

Casey Griffiths:
The physical environment being changed because he’s near. Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah. That’s really interesting. Like you said, where’s the line between vision and physical appearance?

Casey Griffiths:
There’s other accounts of the First Vision where he says stuff like, My mind was taken away, which makes it sound like a vision and not a visitation. But this one sounds like a visitation. It is so neat to think that the Kirtland Temple is a place where you can say, This is where Jesus appeared, and you can get it down to just the Melchizedek priesthood pulpits that are there.

Scott Woodward:
So I was going to actually raise this as a controversy, and you’ve already started to ask it. We didn’t plan this controversy, Casey, so let’s try it out and see where it goes. But it seems like the New Testament and Book of Mormon witnesses of the resurrection were a physical bodily resurrection where they’re actually touching him. Right, he’ll say, Thrust your hands into my side, touch my feet. This is true of Thomas in the New Testament. This is true of the people in 3 Nephi 11. And yet each of the accounts that we’ve read today, including the First Vision account, there’s no touching, there’s no feeling. There’s only seeing, and oftentimes only seeing in vision. Air quotes, I don’t know exactly what that means. I haven’t had one. To be honest with you, Casey, I don’t know what that experience is like, and if it’s just like watching a movie or if it’s more immersive. But I don’t know, what do you think about that? What would you say to someone who says, Well, yeah, but these accounts are more vision, maybe in your mind, whereas in the New Testament, they’re more tactile, and he’s just sitting in the room with them.

Scott Woodward:
He’s actually eating fish with them, you know. He’s standing on the shore by Galilee saying, you know, Come and dine, or whatever.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah, he’s cooking breakfast for them on the shores of the Sea of Galilee. Like, that’s amazing stuff.

Scott Woodward:
That’s different than John Murdock saying, I saw in vision, and he describes what he looked like. It’s not like he was actually in the room. How would you like to think about that? What do you want to say about that?

Casey Griffiths:
There’s one account. It’s probably the most recent one that we found. It’s third-hand. It’s from a guy named Charles Walker. He heard an old man named John Alger relate hearing Joseph Smith share the experience and, of the First Vision. And John Alger says in this account to Charles Walker that Joseph told him that the Father did physically touch him. The Father reached out and touches his eye, and when he touched him, then Joseph was able to see the Savior. And this struck Charles Walker so much that Charles Walker actually runs up to this guy after the meeting and says, Are you sure about that? And John Alger says, Yeah, I remember Joseph Smith actually touching his eye with his finger to suit the actions to the story. So there could be some physical interaction. And again, many of the angels of the Restoration are described as having physical interaction with real-world objects. Moroni handles the plates and the artifacts and the witness experience. Even John the Baptist appearing, we assume there was touch because he gives them the priesthood, which we believe comes through the laying on of hands, and in the Kirtland temple, even if the Savior didn’t invite them to come forward and feel the nail prints in his hands and in his feet thrust their hand into the spear wound on his side like he does in 3 Nephi, Moses, Elias, and Elijah appear and bestow priesthood keys, which I might be wrong, but I’ve always assumed was done physically.

Casey Griffiths:
That’s usually the way that we depict it in art and film, that they placed hands on their head and gave them the keys. Now, it could be wrong. Maybe they only have to say, Hey, I’m giving you the keys, and that transfers the keys of priesthood authority. But in my mind, it usually does involve some kind of physical touch. So if not the resurrected Christ, then resurrected beings like the Father, like Moroni, like John the Baptist, Peter, James, and John, do have physical interaction, which is, again, just a further proof of the resurrection of Christ, because if Christ isn’t resurrected, then none of these people are, and these physical interactions couldn’t have actually happened.

Scott Woodward:
That’s a great point because we know as far as we left John the Baptist in the New Testament, he was beheaded and dead. And now, Joseph and Oliver say, He was there glorified. He looked amazing. Oliver says he was dazzling. And then he ordained us to the Aaronic priesthood. And, yeah, you’re right. That’s a resurrected man. Moroni was a resurrected man hovering in Joseph’s bedroom and then later, flipping the pages of the plates for the Three Witnesses to see.

Casey Griffiths:
Maybe the Restoration paradigm is that idea that you see in the New Testament, Jesus healing people and doing miracles and then telling his Apostles, You’re going to do the same thing. Go get them, guys. It could be with resurrection witnesses, too. Now that there’s additional resurrected beings, Jesus is asking them to provide the physical witness of the resurrection. I think I’ve mentioned this on the podcast before, but M. Russell Ballard, when he used to introduce the message of the Restoration, used to talk about the angel Moroni on the top of temples, which is not a thing we’re doing very much anymore, but saying everybody knows Jesus was resurrected. Like, that’s the center of Christianity. But did you know this guy got resurrected? Did you know there other resurrected beings and that they’re interacting with people and providing authority, that the resurrection of Christ has spread beyond him to these other angelic beings that are now involved in restoring keys and bringing about the Church and causing a restoration of the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ?

Scott Woodward:
Yeah, that reminds me of Matthew 27, right there in the New Testament. It says, After Jesus’s resurrection, quote, “the graves were opened and many bodies of the saints which slept, arose and came out of the graves after Jesus’s resurrection, and went into the holy city and appeared unto many.” There’s your biblical precedent for that. Same thing happens over in the Book of Mormon in 3 Nephi 23:11, quote, “Many saints did arise and appear unto many and administer unto them.” So Jesus is the firstfruits of the resurrection, as the Bible proclaims. First doesn’t mean only. And we see right away, actually, that this starts to reverberate through the dead, starting with the most righteous, if we understand right. It starts with those who have slept, and now they are resurrecting and starting to appear. And so Moroni and John the Baptist are just two examples of those. Peter, James, and John. John’s maybe debatable with his translated versus resurrected state. Who knows? But the point is that we’re seeing actually a little a chorus of resurrected beings participating in the Restoration, actually.

Casey Griffiths:
Let me add one more scripture to this dichotomy. This is Section 133, which talks about the appearance of the Savior and teaches something that I think is pretty cool. It’s talking about the people that Jesus saved. And starting in verse 53, “The angel of his presence saved them, and in his love and in his pity, he redeemed them and bore them and carried them all the days of old. Yea, Enoch also, and they who were with him, the prophets who were before him, and Noah also, and they who were before him, and Moses also, and they who were before him, and from Moses to Elijah, and from Elijah to John, who were with Christ in his resurrection, and the holy apostles with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, shall be in the presence of the Lamb. The graves of the Saint shall be opened, and they shall come forth and stand on the right hand of the Lamb.” That makes It would sound like every prophet that lived before Christ was resurrected around the same time that Christ was, too. Now, Section 138 shows that they were in the spirit world, so it might not have been simultaneously.

Casey Griffiths:
But when we’re talking about death being turned backwards, we’re not just talking about the Savior, as significant and central as that is. We’re talking about death being turned backwards for who knows how many people. I mean, just the city of Enoch would be a significant number of individuals who have already overcome death.

Scott Woodward:
Which seems to have happened, like, shortly after Jesus’s resurrection.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah, around the same time. Yeah. In the eternal scale of things, simultaneous, almost the same time.

Scott Woodward:
Back to the controversial question then about vision versus physical reality. I think you’re bringing up very good points. You also mentioned the phrase New Testament paradigm, which I think is a good phrase we could use for like, Stephen’s vision. Remember in Acts 7, where Stephen has a vision while he’s actually being stoned, and he says, I see Jesus on the right-hand of God. Now, the people around him didn’t see it, but he did. And so maybe that’s a little bit more congruent with some of these other individuals’ experiences we’ve talked about in the early Restoration as well, who are seeing a vision, but not in the Jesus isn’t standing in the room like Section 76. Other people in the room, they don’t see it, but Joseph and Sidney certainly do. They see him on the right-hand of God. That Acts 7 paradigm, if that’s fair to put it like that.

Casey Griffiths:
The same thing applies to Paul, who sees a vision of Jesus Christ on the road to Damascus. In some of the accounts, the people that are with Paul don’t see Jesus. In some of the accounts, they just hear him. There’s three different accounts of it in the Book of Acts, and they all have slightly varying details. Or John the Revelator, who sees a vision of the resurrected Christ at the opening of the Book of Revelation, but doesn’t have the whole physical interaction, feel the nail prints in my hands and in my feet, kind of thing. So, yeah, it’s perfectly valid and fits the model that’s found in the Bible, that people would see Christ in vision, and that’s a valid witness of the living nature of Jesus Christ.

Scott Woodward:
If we just step back for a moment and look at the Doctrine and Covenants as a whole here, we can say that the literal resurrection of Jesus is the underlying premise of the entire Doctrine and Covenants itself. I mean, it’s claiming every, almost every revelation purports to be a revelation from the living Jesus himself. That’s kind of a secondary thread that kind of weaves through all of this. Like, every revelation, if you’re taking the Doctrine and Covenants seriously, then you have to take seriously the resurrected Jesus because he’s the source of these revelations. That said, I thought it would be fun for the next few minutes to actually go through the theology of the resurrection in the Doctrine and Covenants. Does that sound okay, Casey?

Casey Griffiths:
Let’s do it.

Scott Woodward:
We actually find when we dig into the revelations of the Doctrine and Covenants, that there are a lot of insightful things in here about the resurrection. For instance, let’s start with the first one. These revelations help to frame our understanding of the endgame of God’s creation of this Earth and how that ties directly to the resurrection, because there is a fundamental future reality that Jesus’s resurrection points toward, and it’s not the end we often think.

Scott Woodward:
The resurrection of Jesus doesn’t ensure that we’re going to go to heaven when we die, Casey. We like to talk like that as Christians generally, and as Latter-day Saints, we like to say we’re going to return home to live with Heavenly Father again someday. As if this Earth is like a way station or simply a temporary testing ground where we prove ourselves and qualify to go to heaven when we die. But that’s not the story of the Doctrine and Covenants or the Bible, actually. In fact, in the Doctrine and Covenants, we get an amplified version of the biblical doctrine that God actually intends to sanctify all of his creation, including this Earth, our bodies, and everything on this Earth, to have it renewed, to have it sanctified, to have it eternalized, to have it glorified. And our destiny is inextricably tied with the destiny of planet Earth. We’re not trying to blow this joint. We’re not trying to go to heaven. We’re anticipating a day when heaven comes to Earth and heaven is fully infused into this world and becomes a renewed heaven and a renewed Earth. And Jesus, as the firstfruits of the resurrection, points forward to that future reality.

Scott Woodward:
Let me just read a quote or two from the Doctrine and Covenants that helps us kind of paint that picture. The Doctrine and Covenants talks about this the way the Bible does, that it’s going to happen in two parts. There’s going to be, for instance, in Revelation, chapter 20 in the Bible, there is a thousand-year period, we call the Millennium, before chapter 21 and 22 of Book of Revelation, where the Earth gets renewed and sanctified completely, and God, the Father, comes here. So in the Doctrine and Covenants, speaking of that first phase of the renewed Earth, a new creation or renewed creation, we have, like in Section 101, this beautiful word-picture is painted for us. The Lord says, starting in verse 23, “Prepare for the revelation which is to come. When the veil of the covering of my temple in my tabernacle, which hideth the earth, shall be taken off, and all flesh see me together. And every corruptable thing, both of man, or of beast of the field, or of the fowls of the heavens, or of the fish of the sea, that dwells upon all the face of the earth, shall be consumed.” All corruption, gone.

Scott Woodward:
“And also that of element shall melt with fervent heat, and all things shall become new, so that my knowledge and glory may dwell upon all the earth. And in that day,” speaking of the millennial day here, “the enmity of man and the enmity of beast, the enmity of all flesh, shall cease from before my face. In that day, Satan shall not have power to tempt any man. There shall be no sorrow because there’s no death,” he says. “And in that day, an infant shall not die until he is old, and his life shall be as the age of a tree,” riffing off of Isaiah here. “And when he dies, he shall not sleep, that is to say, in the earth, but shall be changed in the twinkling of an eye, and shall be caught up, and his rest shall be glorious. And all they who suffer persecution for my name,” he says to a group of Saints who just suffered serious persecution for his name in Missouri. That’s the context here. “And those who endure in faith, though they are called to lay down their lives for my sake, yet shall they partake of all this glory.”

Scott Woodward:
“Wherefore,” he says, “fear not even unto death, for in this world your joy is not full, but in me your joy is full.” Right there, he’s painting this really beautiful picture of what the millennial day will be like, a day when all corruption is swept off of creation. A day when nobody dies, sort of, infants will grow old and they won’t be buried in a grave when they die. They’ll just kind of twinkle. They’ll just change. Resurrection instantly, and the glory of the Lord will fill all of creation during that time. And it’s interesting, his application, right? He says, So don’t fear death. My resurrection, and what that represents about the renewal of all creation that’s eventually going to happen, should change the way you see death. Death is not the worst thing that can happen to you. So if you have to lay down your lives for my sake, it’s okay. In me, your joy is full, and you will partake, he says, of all of that millennial glory, whether you die now or die at an old age. That’s a cool moment in the Doctrine and Covenants.

Casey Griffiths:
That doctrine of being changed in the twinkling of an eye, right? That it’s going to become really natural that a person will be resurrected. He says, what’s the wording that he uses here? “His life shall be as the age of a tree,” which I don’t know if that means that at a certain point you just start aging backwards, or some people have connected it to this passage in Isaiah that says 100 years. If that’s the case, you know, when you’re 99, do you have like a party and they count down and it’s five, four, three, I don’t know how it works. But yes, the idea is that the corruption that we’re used to, the gradual running down of everything around us, goes away. It reverses and everything becomes new, which is really cool. That Jesus didn’t just come to save men and women. He saved the environment that we exist in, that he’s the Savior of our ecosystem is a really, really neat teaching found almost exclusively in the Doctrine and Covenants.

Scott Woodward:
A smattering in the New Testament, I think Paul, particularly. I’m thinking Romans 8, Ephesians 1, Book of Revelation. It’s there, yeah. Like I said, we’re getting an amplification of that biblical doctrine here. Some clarity that can be a little ambiguous in the biblical text is being made really clean and sharp here. There’s another passage in Section 76 that’s referring to those who will be in the celestial kingdom. But at first it talks about the millennial day, that thousand-year period. It says, verse 63, speaking of these people, “These are they whom Jesus shall bring with him when he shall come in the clouds of heaven to reign on the earth over his people. These are they who shall have part in the first resurrection. These are they who shall come forth in the resurrection of the just.” He’s not resurrecting this group of celestial people and then blowing this joint, like going to heaven. The scriptural story is the opposite of what we sometimes say culturally. It’s about resurrected people being here on this earth and ruling it, as verse 63 said, with Jesus. And these people will come with him in the clouds of heaven. I don’t know if they’re to be resurrected, and then they go meet him kind of somewhere, and then they all descend together as some pictures depict it.

Scott Woodward:
I don’t know. But he says the goal is that these resurrected people will reign on the earth with Jesus. Again, that’s consonant with Revelation 1, Revelation 5, Revelation 20. It’s this group of, they’re called kings and priests who are ruling with Jesus in the millennial thousand-year period. But that’s not the end. Sometimes we tell the story as if that’s the end, like the millennial day. Jesus comes and it’s the Millennium, the end. There’s actually phase 2 of the renewed creation that happens right after that. And this part is glorious. This is the end game, right, toward which everything is moving.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. And a couple of passages in the Doctrine and Covenants that describe this so beautifully. One, Section 29 of the Doctrine and Covenants. It says this, “I say unto you when the thousand years are ended,” so after the Millennium, “and men again begin to deny their God, then will I spare the earth before a little season, and then the end shall come, and the heaven and the earth shall be consumed and pass away, and there shall be a new heaven and a new earth, for all old things shall pass away, and all things shall become new. Even the heaven and the earth and the fullness thereof, both men and beings, the fowls of the air and the fishes of the sea, and not one hair, neither mote, shall be lost, for it is the workmanship of my hand.” Boy, that answers a ton of questions, too. You know, I remember my daughter wanted a pet, and so we bought her this black and she named it Julia Roberts. But Julia Roberts passed away, and my kids were still pretty little, and we did that thing where we went to a field and had a little moment where we buried the body.

Casey Griffiths:
And I remember my kids saying, Well, what happens to her? Like, we’ve talked about what happens to people. Section 29 teaches that, No, she’ll be renewed, too. Like, everything is going to be put back in its place. It was just a touching moment and a neat thing that standing in that field, I read these verses with my kids, and we got to talk about how our concept of resurrection is not just men and women, and not just kind of a spiritual, Yeah, we’ll live forever as a spirit. It’s physically, we believe everything that God created is not only going to be brought back, but brought back into its best possible form.

Scott Woodward:
This is the climax of the whole creation story, right? This is the end toward which the whole creation has been moving from the beginning. Like, we’re in the midst of it now, and it’s actually going somewhere. Jesus being the firstfruit of this renewal is just, like I said, this is the signpost. It’s that which points toward this future reality when what happened to Jesus on Easter is going to happen to all of creation. And Section 29 is a fantastic verse. Let me share one more. I think that just really seals the deal. Section 88, verses 14 through 20. These are just, like, I come back to these verses all the time, Casey. I just love how this is described. It says, “Now, verily I say unto you that through the redemption which is made for you is brought to pass the resurrection from the dead, and the spirit and the body are the soul of man.” Right, spirit and body together is the soul, “and the resurrection from the dead is the redemption of the soul. And the redemption of the soul is through him that quickeneth all things,” quickeneth, meaning to make alive, “in whose bosom it is decreed that the poor and the meek of the earth shall inherit it.”

Scott Woodward:
A nice reference to the Sermon on the Mount. Remember that passage when Jesus says, “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth?” That turns out to be literal here, actually. And so he goes on to now talk about the earth. This is right in the discussion of the resurrection of our bodies. And then he just transitions effortlessly into this speaking of the sanctification of the earth. So he says, “Therefore, it,” meaning the earth, “must needs be sanctified from all unrighteousness, that it may be prepared for the celestial glory. For after it,” the earth, “has filled the measure of its creation, it shall be crowned with glory, even with the presence of God the Father. That bodies who are of the celestial kingdom may possess it forever and ever. For for this intent was it,” the earth, “made and created, and for this intent are they,” meaning humans, “sanctified.” So again, there’s this amazing doctrine and theology of the inseparable nature of mankind and this earth, and that we are together coming. Like the creation story is about, in some ways, humans inhabiting this earth forever, but a corrupted earth would not be a fit habitation for eternal beings, and so the earth itself will also be renewed, refreshed, all of creation to make a fit habitation for these eternal celestial beings, he says.

Scott Woodward:
And he goes on, verse 25, “And again, verily I say unto you, the earth abideth the law of a celestial kingdom, for it filleth the measure of its creation, and transgresses not the law. Wherefore it shall be sanctified, yea notwithstanding, it shall die, it shall be quickened again, and shall abide the power by which it is quickened, and the righteous shall inherit it.” What an expansion on that little phrase in the Sermon on the Mount that the meek shall inherit the earth.

Casey Griffiths:
And I have, like, looked at this scripture a lot because he’s talking about the earth like a person. The earth abides the law of the celestial kingdom. It fills the measure of its creation. It doesn’t transgress the law. It will die, but it will be quickened or resurrected again. And I’ve even done the mental work to say, Wait, does the Earth have free will? Like, can it make its own decisions? I don’t know if I know the answer to that. I think I’ve settled in saying, The next phrase he says is, It fills the measure of its creation, which is this beautiful biblical phrase that basically means it does what it’s supposed to do. And that’s what the celestial law is, that you just do what you were designed to do. That’s all that God expects, really. Sin is deviant from what we’ve been designed to do or what we’re intended to do. So it’s just a beautiful environmental theology. I would stress that just because the Earth is going to be restored, doesn’t mean we don’t have an obligation to be good stewards, too. You don’t want to trash the house just because you know somebody’s going to come and fix it.

Casey Griffiths:
But boy, it is nice to know that Jesus came to save the whole system.

Scott Woodward:
That’s a great way to say it. He came to save the whole system because we need each other. The people need the planet. The planet needs the people. It reminds me of the Lord’s prayer when he says, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. But then he goes on to say, thy kingdom come. It’s not just about let’s model heaven, but let’s actually prepare for heaven to come here. He calls that fusion of heaven and earth. He calls that the kingdom. I like this quote from N.T. Wright. In fact, Elder Stevenson quoted him recently in conference, and he quoted this book. So let me put a plug in for this book called Surprised by Hope. I think it’s the very best book that argues most convincingly for the reality of the resurrection. Here’s just a quick little quote from N.T. Wright says, quote, “Jesus’s resurrection is the beginning of God’s new project not to snatch people away from Earth to heaven, but to colonize Earth with the life of heaven. That, after all, is what the Lord’s prayer is about.” Little allusions in the Lord’s prayers to the future reality that is first made concrete with the physical resurrection of Jesus.

Scott Woodward:
But that’s just the beginning. That’s just the firstfruits of the whole project, which is remarkable.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. And my first thought hearing this, because I love this book, too. And lone of our colleagues, Robert Millet, has said, N.T. Wright is like the modern C. S. Lewis, that he’s doing the same thing. Is this guy gets it, right? That resurrection is not a metaphor, and it’s not a nice way of making people feel better when their loved ones die. It’s a literal reality. I heard someone else, and I can’t remember who, say that one day we’re going to see resurrection as natural as birth is right now, that it’s just a process in our existence that we go through. And again, N.T. Wright gets it, that it’s about physical things, not metaphorical things. It’s literally going to happen. That’s part of it, too. In fact, Let me add another scripture here. This is Section 93. Again, this idea of is it physical, is it metaphorical, verses 33 through 34. “For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element inseparably connected, receive a fullness of joy. When separated, man cannot receive a fullness of joy.” Meaning without the resurrection, we would always be sub-level. We wouldn’t ever be able to fully be joyful.

Casey Griffiths:
We have to have a physical or elemental component to ourselves in order to become like God. That is one of the very different, very radical teachings of the Restoration that I’m so glad we believe in, too.

Scott Woodward:
That is true of us and this glorious planet. Romans 8 is one of N.T. Wright’s favorite go-to chapters to talk about this, where creation, Paul writes that creation is groaning for this new creation, right. It’s currently weighed down by sin and decay and darkness and death and iniquity and cannot wait until this earth becomes what it has the potential to be. You see that same spirit in the vision of Enoch in Moses 7. The Earth is groaning under the weight of iniquity and can’t wait for a day of rest. One more quote from N.T. Wright, he said, “The creation was subjected to futility, to transience, and decay until the day when God’s children are glorified, when what happened to Jesus at Easter will happen to all of Jesus’ people. The whole creation,” he says, “is on tiptoe with expectation, longing for the day when God’s children are revealed, when their resurrection will herald its own new life.” It starts with Jesus starts to then spread down through all of humanity, and eventually culminates in a renewed heaven and a renewed earth, where both are together. This is a framing of the plan of salvation.

Scott Woodward:
I don’t often hear, Casey, I don’t hear us talking this way. But when you dig deep into the Doctrine and Covenants and the Bible, as we’re looking at here, this story is the actual story. It’s not that we’re coming to Earth to be tested for a little while to see if we can control our bodies. Then if we pass the test, then we leave and we go to heaven. No, this is about a new creation and us being able to dwell in that and to rule and reign forever with our God and his son on this new creation. Frankly, I think that’s a more powerful and beautiful, more robust theology, and that just resonates completely. But let’s do one more. Here’s a verse that maybe we don’t always think of as a resurrection verse. I think we kind of think of it more as a missionary verse. But let’s look at it through the lens of the resurrection and see if this changes anything. This is in Doctrine and Covenants 18. We’ve already covered this this year, Casey, but let’s go to verse 10 through 16 and just think about this through the lens of the resurrection.

Scott Woodward:
“Remember, the worth of souls is great in the sight of God. For behold, the Lord your Redeemer suffered death in the flesh, wherefore he suffered the pain of all men, that all men might repent and come unto him. And he hath risen again from the dead,” verse 12 says, “that he might bring all men to him on conditions of repentance.” Interesting. He’s tying repentance to his resurrection. And so then he goes on to say, “How great is his joy in the soul that repenteth? Wherefore you are called to cry repentance unto this people, and if it so be that you should labor all your days in crying repentance unto this people and bring, save it be one soul unto me, how great shall be your joy with him in the kingdom of my Father! And now, if your joy will be great with one soul that you’ve brought unto me into the kingdom of my Father, how great will be your joy if you should bring many souls unto me?” I emphasize the phrase, into the kingdom of my Father, because Jesus seems to be tying our need to declare repentance and to repent ourselves to his resurrection and our ability to then dwell in this renewed creation with him in the kingdom of his Father.

Scott Woodward:
I don’t know if I’ve I’ve never seen it that clearly, Casey, until I started thinking about what does the Doctrine and Covenants teach about the resurrection? The Lord is giving a really, really strong and beautiful why to repentance. The resurrection sort of undergirds the why behind our repentance and for our need to declare it to others. It’s an invitation for everyone to join that group of people who will rule and reign with God and his Son. He calls it the kingdom of my Father on this renewed earth, this renewed creation, forever and ever. Those who repent and come unto him, will get to be in that renewed creation together with everybody else who qualifies. That’s a reason to repent, and that’s a reason to invite everyone you love to repent, he says.

Casey Griffiths:
Amen. Let me add another favorite scripture of mine. This is from the end of the Doctrine and Covenants. This is Section 138, which you’re not supposed to have favorite sections, but man, I love this one. Joseph F. Smith is seeing a vision of the spirit world the day Jesus is crucified. So this is prologue to the resurrection, okay? Spirit world, salvation, Saturday, whatever you want to call it. If you go far enough into Section 138, it lists the people that are here. Adam, Eve. Says Eve and many of her glorious daughters. Then it lists pretty much every Old Testament prophet, and then says many of the prophets that dwelt among the Nephites. Nephi’s here, King Benjamin, he writes, “All these had departed the mortal life firm in the hope of a glorious resurrection through the grace of God the Father and his only begotten son, Jesus Christ. I beheld, they were filled with joy and gladness and were rejoicing together because the day of their deliverance was at hand.” So these are righteous people. They didn’t go to the bad place, but they’re still excited of the idea of being delivered. They’re still in a type of prison because Jesus hasn’t performed the atonement yet and the resurrection hasn’t happened.

Casey Griffiths:
He says, “They were assembled together, waiting the advent of the Son of God into the spirit world to declare their redemption from the bands of death. Their sleeping dust was to be restored unto its perfect frame, bone to his bone, and the sinews and the flesh upon them, the spirit and the body, to be united, never again to be divided, that they might receive a fullness of joy. And while this vast multitude waited and conversed, rejoicing in the hour of their deliverance from the chains of death, the Son of God appeared, declaring liberty to the captives who had been faithful. And there he preached unto them the everlasting gospel, the doctrine of the resurrection and the redemption of mankind from the Fall.” And it goes on to say, “The saints rejoiced in their redemption and bowed the knee and acknowledged the Son of God as their redeemer,” and here’s the title that they use for him, “their deliverer from death and the chains of hell.” The most righteous person, you now, someone like Moses or Isaiah, was still in a form of bondage until the resurrection was put into effect. They were waiting, anticipating, pleading for this day to come, and were there to witness the Savior.

Casey Griffiths:
And the first thing the Savior teaches them is about the everlasting gospel, which also includes the doctrine of the resurrection, according to these passages.

Scott Woodward:
I love that next verse too, verse 24 that says, “After he taught them the doctrine of the resurrection,” which you can only imagine what it sounded like to hear the doctrine of the resurrection being taught by Jesus right before you get resurrected. But it says, “Their countenances shone, and the radiance from the presence of the Lord rested upon them, and they started singing spontaneously. They sang praises unto his holy name,” which is the feeling that seems to well up inside as you think about the glorious news that this is everything. All of our hopes rest on the reality of the resurrection. And as the reality of that sinks into your heart and soul, like, singing is what you want to do. Let’s just summarize then the theology piece here in the Doctrine and Covenants, the resurrection is explained in a couple of ways that do a few really important theological things. Number one, it frames our understanding of the endgame of God’s creation, that God intends all of his creation to be renewed and sanctified and eternalized and glorified, and that Jesus represents the firstfruits of the beginning of that. Number two, the resurrection gives us motivation to repent and to declare repentance to others.

Scott Woodward:
We also noted that it changes our relationship with death. That death is not the worst thing that can happen to you. There’s a lot of glory and a lot of life yet to live after death, what N.T. Wright calls life after life after death. There is so much after that. It makes possible the fullness of joy, like you quoted from Section 93. And so there’s so much, and it fills us with desires to want to sing, to want to shout praises. In fact, maybe could we end today with one of my favorite passages from the Doctrine and Covenants, written by Joseph Smith. When he’s in hiding, he’s contemplating this doctrine of work for the dead that he’s just learning about, and he’s starting to unfold to the Saints in Nauvoo, and he captures it so great. So think about this in terms of the resurrection, the good news of the gospel, the chance now to be able to redeem our dead, meaning, obviously, Jesus is the redeemer of the dead, but that we get to participate in helping them receive the ordinances that help Christ to claim them to be part of that resurrected group in new creation.

Scott Woodward:
Joseph says, quote, “Brethren, shall we not go on in so great a cause? Go forward and not backward. Courage, brethren, and on, on to the victory. Let your hearts rejoice and be exceedingly glad. Let the earth break forth into singing. Let the dead speak forth anthems of eternal to the King Immanuel, who hath ordained before the world was that which would enable us to redeem them out of their prison, for the prisoners shall go free.” What a great line for the resurrection. The prisoners shall go free. Then he says, and think about this with new creation and everything we just talked about with this beautiful doctrine of where this is all headed, Casey. “Let the mountains shout for joy, and all ye valleys cry aloud, and all ye seas and dry lands tell the wonders of your eternal king, and ye rivers and brooks and rills flow down with gladness. Let the woods and all the trees of the field praise the Lord, and ye solid rocks weep for joy, and let the sun, moon, and the morning stars sing together, and let all the sons of God shout for joy, and let the eternal creations declare his name forever and ever.

Scott Woodward:
“And again I say, how glorious is the voice we hear from heaven, proclaiming in our ears, glory, and salvation, and honor, and immortality, and eternal life, kingdoms, principalities and powers.” So good.

Casey Griffiths:
Captures the essence of what we’re all about, right? The greatest message ever shared, he lives.

Scott Woodward:
And because he lives, all of our hopes can be realized, right? We end today where we began. All the hopes of everything that we think about in terms of an eternal future, all of our hopes about eternal families, all of our hopes about life after death. It all hinges on the resurrection of Jesus Christ. This is our hope. This is where we have chosen to put a stake in the ground, Casey. This is something we will never budge on. As Christians, as Latter-day Saints, we testify of him and the reality of his resurrection. We believe in the testimony of the prophets and apostles, both ancient and modern, that Christ has actually risen from the dead, and all that that implies comes packaged with that. And of that, we testify on this Easter Day.

Casey Griffiths:
Amen. Happy Easter, Scott. I think you made a good case for why it’s a big deal.

Scott Woodward:
You, too. Pleasure to be with you, my friend.

Casey Griffiths:
Happy Easter, everyone.