Scott Woodward:
You have gifts. You have unique gifts that will be a particular blessing to the people you’re called to serve now in ways unique to you. I can be who God has made me to be, to be a benefit to others. When you lean into the gifts God has given you, you’re better able to bless authentically and to be a benefit to others. Lean into the gifts that God has given you and watch what heaven can do through you.

Scott Woodward:
Hello, Casey.

Casey Griffiths:
Hello, Scott. Good to see you again.

Scott Woodward:
We’re going to dive into some really interesting Kirtland revelations where the Saints were dealing with some perplexing questions, Casey.

Casey Griffiths:
And questions that still kind of resonate in the Church today to varying degrees.

Scott Woodward:
Should we dive in? This just comes like a day after Section 45, which we talked about last week. And Joseph has received the laws of the Church. He’s received Section 45 with the signs of the times. Now, the next few revelations here are going to address some unusual spiritual manifestations that had happening among new converts in Kirtland. Those converts became particularly enamored with the gifts of the Spirit and instructions in the Book of Mormon about how to conduct themselves. There’s no set way to deal with this stuff in this early era. This is 1831. What’s acceptable practice? What’s not acceptable practice? What gifts of the Spirit are real and what gifts are not real? You’re going to drop us into the immediate context. But the next several revelations, Casey, from Section 46, 49, and 50 is the same stuff, same issues. It’s a young church in the midst of growing pains, trying to understand orthodoxy and orthopraxy. What is acceptable doctrine? What’s acceptable practice? These revelations are going to be very helpful in regulating the Church and helping us to avoid deception.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah, the Church is less than a year old at this point, and I think these are just growing pains. The Church is really new, especially in Kirtland, where Joseph Smith has just arrived. This is received in March. I think the missionaries have showed up there in October. We’re talking about a whole group of converts that are just a couple of months old in the faith. Joseph Smith is navigating this. He’s also dealing with questions that come when you grow from a really small family-based organization into a larger ecclesiastical structure. This is normal stuff, and it’s stuff that still pops up on the local level of the Church on a fairly regular basis.

Scott Woodward:
Drop us into Section 46 and tell us what was immediately going on here that brought about this revelation, Casey.

Casey Griffiths:
Section 46, like you mentioned, is received the day after Section 45. And Section 45 is this grand exploration of the eschatological signs of the times. Section 46 is a little bit more down to earth. How do we run the Church right now? John Whitmer, who was the Church historian, and we’re going to talk about in this episode, said that the revelation came in response to a question that Church members had about whether nonbelievers should be allowed in their meetings. This is what John Whitmer wrote to introduce this. “In the beginning of the Church, while yet in her infancy, the disciples used to exclude unbelievers, which caused some to marvel and converse about this matter because of the things which were written in the Book of Mormon.” It’s It’s likely that these early members are ripping off the Book of Moroni, which has a passage. This is Moroni 6:7, which reads, “And they were strict to observe that there was no iniquity among them; and whoso was found to commit iniquity, and three witnesses of the church did condemn them before the elders, if they repented not, and confessed not, their names were blotted out, and they were not numbered among the people of Christ.”

Casey Griffiths:
So are we supposed to let people that are in iniquity worship with us? And what does that mean exactly? Like, does iniquity mean they haven’t made covenants? They’re not a Church member? At the same time, there’s this pressure, the other direction. There’d been a conflict of opinion among missionaries. Some had just returned to Kirtland from Cleveland, where they had a terrible experience. “They were preaching when a deceiver came forward and knelt as if to pray, but then led an attack on them. His cohorts blew out candles and threw ink stands and books at the speaker.” Some missionaries recognizing this, understandably wanted to restrict attendance at their meetings as a result of this abuse. This isn’t like them being really snobby. They do have a legitimate concern of, should we allow non-members to attend our meetings? But other members of the Church oppose this idea because in another place in the Book of Mormon, this is 3 Nephi 18:22, the Lord commands the Church, quote, “Not to forbid any man from coming unto you when you shall meet together,” unquote. So both positions seem justified, and the Saints are at an impasse. So John Whitmer writes, “The Lord deemed to speak on this subject that his people might come to understanding and said that he had always given to his elders to conduct all meetings as they were led by the Spirit.”

Casey Griffiths:
The Lord knows what he said in 3 Nephi 18 in allowing everybody to worship with the Saints. However, it is the case that elders are directed to conduct the Church by led by the Spirit, as it says in Moroni. So could there be times when there’s exceptions to what the Book of Mormon says based on what the situation is and how the Spirit is leading the elders? That’s situation one, Section 46 is dealing with who should come to our meetings.

Scott Woodward:
So generally allow people to come to church, but what about people who are disruptive like that? What should we do about If we kick them out, would that violate 3 Nephi 18?

Casey Griffiths:
We still deal with this today, right? What if someone is really disturbing? Our sign says, Visitors welcome, but what if somebody is threatening? What if somebody is dangerous or something like that? How do we deal with those particular issues. That’s issue one. It seems like issue two is that during this time, there’s some unusual spiritual manifestations happening in Kirtland. For instance, Joseph Smith writes a letter to his brother Hyrum only a few days before this revelation was given. In the letter, he writes, “This morning, after being called out of my bed in the night to go a small distance, I went and had an awful struggle with Satan. But being armed with the power of God, he was cast out.” Now, Joseph Smith may have been referring to a member of the Kirtland community who’d been affected by demonic possession, because he also added in the letter, “And the woman is clothed in her right mind, and the Lord worketh wonders in this land.” There’s all these unusual spiritual manifestations. Joseph Smith is able to manifest the gifts of the Spirit. In fact, that really kicks the Church into high gear in Kirtland is when he gets there and starts to exercise some of the spiritual gifts.

Casey Griffiths:
But these are new converts, and helping them understand the gifts of the Spirit is going to be a challenge, too. That’s another major focus of Section 46 is what are the gifts of the Spirit and how do we exercise them, and what’s appropriate in exercising them?

Scott Woodward:
How can we tell which spirits are really from God and which are just people doing weird stuff? How do we know that’s the devil and not the Spirit of God, et cetera? Because people are going to, and we’ll talk more about this with Section 50, but people are doing some wild stuff, and they’re doing it in the name of the Spirit of God has come upon me. Imagine being a brand new convert and not knowing what’s what, like so many of these people are.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. I mean, everybody’s a new convert at this point, right? The Church is less than a year old. In this area, most people are converts of just a few months. So this is necessary guidance that the Lord is providing, just about some basic things they need to understand.

Scott Woodward:
As we’ll see, there are nuggets in here that even the most seasoned member of the Church today can still gain tremendous value from. So into the content we go. The Lord opens verse one like this, “Hearken, O ye people of my church; for verily I say unto you that these things were spoken unto you for your profit and learning.” Verse two, “But notwithstanding those things which are written, it always has been given to the elders of my church from the beginning, and ever shall be, to conduct all meetings as they are directed and guided by the Holy Spirit.” What’s he talking about here? Your context was really helpful here. It’s hard to understand what he means here without that context. What had been written? Well, what had been written was, at least in their minds at this time, 3 Nephi 18:22, “Ye shall not forbid any man from coming unto you when ye shall meet together,” Jesus said. The Lord says, notwithstanding that which is written. That’s true. That is in the text. That I said that in 3 Nephi 18. That is true. But I want you, leaders of the Church, and all of you in your individual lives, to conduct all of your meetings as they are directed and guided by the Holy Spirit.

Scott Woodward:
Yes, there’s a handbook of instructions, you might say, right? Yes, there are things that are written. But if the Spirit guides you to diverge from that, trust the Spirit. Just make sure it’s actually the Spirit. For instance, he goes on in verse three, “Nevertheless ye are commanded never to cast anyone out from your public meetings, which are held before the world,” right? Public meetings. “Ye are also commanded not to cast anyone who belongeth to the church out of your sacrament meetings,” that’s a different kind of meeting. “Nevertheless, if any have trespassed, let him not partake of the sacrament until he makes reconciliation.” Okay, so don’t cast any members out of your sacrament meetings. But also, if they are in serious transgression, don’t let them partake of the sacrament. Actually, that resonates with what Jesus had said back in 3 Nephi 18 as well, where he said to leaders then, “Behold, this is the commandment I give unto you, that ye shall not suffer any one knowingly to partake of my flesh and blood unworthily, when ye shall minister it; for whoso eateth and drinketh my flesh and blood unworthily eateth and drinketh damnation to his soul.” You wouldn’t want to take of the emblems of your repentance, the emblems of the Savior’s atonement, his body and blood, and your commitment to follow his commands, if you have not repented.

Scott Woodward:
That would be in some ways a serious hypocrisy. And so make sure you’ve repented and then go for it. The Lord is obviously tracking here with the 3 Nephi 18 line of reasoning. He says, “And again I say unto you, you shall not cast out any of your sacrament meetings who are earnestly seeking the kingdom. I speak this concerning those who are not of the church.” Okay, so Can Church members come to sacrament meeting? Yes. What if they’re not worthy? They can still come, just don’t partake of the sacrament. Okay, what about those who are not members of the Church? Verse 5, They also can come if they are earnestly seeking the kingdom. There’s a third kind of meeting they were holding during that time. We don’t hold this meeting anymore. Verse 6 talks about confirmation meetings. “If there be any that are not of the church that are earnestly seeking after the kingdom, don’t cast them out of your confirmation meetings.” Now, confirmation meeting is when those who had been baptized would get together a separate meeting and get confirmed members of the Church. Today, we typically just do that on the same day if someone’s baptized.

Casey Griffiths:
We’re seeing a theme, right? He talks about public meetings, which are probably, you know, like missionary open houses, public preaching, sacrament meetings, which we’re all familiar with, confirmation meetings. But the central theme here is don’t cast them out. In other words, we’re to be more inclusive than exclusive.

Scott Woodward:
With the qualifier, make sure they’re earnestly seeking the kingdom, he says. The implicit message here is if they are rabble-rousers throwing ink bottles at your head or they’re hecklers or they’re disturbers and annoyers of the meeting, then you don’t need to allow them to stay. Notwithstanding that which is written, you can make a judgment call, leaders of the Church, as long as they’re well-behaved and earnestly seeking the kingdom. Don’t disrupt the meeting, but you’re welcome to come and participate. Now we transition in verse seven to the next issue about spiritual gifts. Here’s where the Lord starts to get into that. Quote, “But ye are commanded in all things to ask of God, who giveth liberally, and that which the Spirit testifies unto you, even so I would that ye should do in all holiness of heart.” Again, above all things like trust in the Spirit of God, “walking uprightly before me,” the Lord says, “considering the end of your salvation, doing all things with prayer and thanksgiving; that ye may not be seduced by evil spirits, or doctrines of devils, or the commandments of men, for some are of men, and others of devils.”

Scott Woodward:
That’s really interesting. Those are two interesting categories, isn’t it? Doctrines of devils and commandments of men. Some false ideas and false doctrines come just from human brains. That’s important to think about that, like misunderstandings or crossing of wires. That happens. And so discerning Church leaders need to be able to have the Spirit of God with them so they can discern that. But there’s also such things as doctrines that come from sources more diabolical. One extreme example in Alma 30, when Korihor finally starts to fess up, he says, All right, I confess. The stuff I’m teaching was given to me by an angel of light who I now recognize was the devil. But he taught me what to say. He told me that there is no God. He taught me the things I should say which are pleasing to the carnal mind. And so I taught them. And because I had so much success teaching them, I started to believe them myself. And so Korihor is an interesting example of someone who was teaching doctrines of the devil, about no accountability, about no God, about things that are pleasing to the carnal mind. So the Lord’s point here is verse 8, “Wherefore beware lest ye are deceived, and that ye may not be deceived.”

Scott Woodward:
There’s a solution to this problem. “Seek ye earnestly the best gifts, always remembering for what they are given.” They are given to help us avoid deception. And he adds in verse 9, “They are given for the benefit of those who love me, and keep all my commandments, and him that seeketh so to do.” Casey, I’m so grateful for that last line. Even if you’re not nailing it and keeping all of God’s commandments, if you’re seeking, the gifts of the Spirit are also for you. Why? “That all may be benefited, that seek or that ask of me, that ask, and not for a sign, just that they may consume it upon their lust.” We’re not talking about sign-seeking here. But if you’re sincerely seeking God and you want to be led right and not deceived, the gifts of the Spirit are here to help with that. One of the first keys he gives us, one of the first ways to avoid deception, this is really subtle here in verse 9, but I think it’s powerful. He says, remember that the gifts are meant to benefit people. Maybe that’s your first question. If you saw something kind of weird, is that really from God?

Scott Woodward:
Quick question you can ask based on verse 9 is, was anybody benefited by that? Is that actually helping anybody? If it’s not actually helping, then that’s one of the good ways you can start to tell, Okay, that might be either from someone’s brain or it could be from the devil, either way, but it’s not of God.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. Let me point out another thing, which is the Lord isn’t saying that you just automatically have these gifts. He says that you seek the gifts. Spiritual gifts aren’t set in stone. You can seek to acquire new ones. The question is, Well, what gifts should I seek? I really love this quote from President George Q. Cannon. Here’s what he said, “If any of us are imperfect, It is our duty to pray for the gift that will make them perfect. Have I imperfections? I am full of them. What is my duty? To pray to God to give me the gifts that will correct these imperfections. If I’m an angry man, it’s my duty to pray for charity which suffereth long and is kind. No man ought to say, Oh, I cannot help this. It is my nature. He is not justified in it. The reason that God has promised to give strength is to correct these things, to give gifts that will eradicate them. For this purpose, he gives these gifts and bestows them upon those who seek after them in order that they may be a perfect people upon the face of the earth, notwithstanding their many weaknesses.”

Casey Griffiths:
So if you need a guide to seeking your spiritual gifts and what you should ask for, President Cannon would say, Start with your weaknesses. Sit down and have an earnest conversation with yourself about the areas that you struggle in and then ask for gifts that you feel will help you overcome those weaknesses. This is a prophet of God saying, I have a ton of weaknesses, and I’m seeking spiritual gifts to try and counter them. So that’s a big part of the function of spiritual gifts, too, is to make us whole, to fill in the areas where we have obvious problems.

Scott Woodward:
Does it help you draw closer to God? Does it help you be in a better position to be able to help others draw closer to God? If you can answer yes to those, this is probably from God.

Casey Griffiths:
It is deeply personal, right? It’s not always for us to judge a person’s spiritual gifts. There are things like patriarchal blessings, priesthood blessings, and guidance from loving Church leaders that will help you understand the gifts, but it can be a personal journey, and sometimes it can be difficult to appreciate and see that you actually do have a gift. Let’s keep going. Verse 10. “Again, verily I say unto you, I would that you should always remember and always retain in your minds what those gifts are that are given unto the church. For all have not every gift given unto them; there are many gifts, and to every man is given a gift by the Spirit of God. To some is given one, and to some is given another, that all may be profited thereby.” As we’re walking through this, he points out that it’s not just a question of filling in your deficiencies, it’s a question of bringing you together with the body of Christ, that God isn’t going to give all the spiritual gifts to one person because we need each other. You shouldn’t get jealous if someone has a spiritual gift that you don’t, because you can reach out to them and access the gift through them.

Casey Griffiths:
We’re all in this together.

Scott Woodward:
I think that’s beautiful. The gifts of the Spirit are meant to benefit you, yes, but if you think about them as other people’s gifts are meant to benefit you and your gifts are meant to help others profit thereby, you start to see how the body of Christ is meant to be together. We’re not doing this in isolation from other people. We’re not doing this in isolation from other members of the Church. We were meant to benefit one another. In fact, I remember President Eyring, he just gave the best talk about this. It’s called “Gifts of the Spirit for Hard Times.” Go look it up, September 2006, CES Fireside for Young Adults. He said this about our motive. “If you want to receive the gifts of the Spirit, you have to want them for the right reasons. Your purpose must be the Lord’s purpose. And to the degree your motives are selfish, you will find it difficult to receive those gifts of the Spirit that have been promised to you.” I think we’re seeing right here in Section 46, the Lord is saying, These gifts are for you to have so that you can be a benefit to other people and so that you can benefit from other people’s gifts.

Scott Woodward:
This is the purpose.

Casey Griffiths:
Let me follow up with a little quote here from Joseph Smith, too, because it does seem like this section of Section 46 is warning us about spiritual gifts. Joseph Smith teaches this. He says, “We believe in the gift of the Holy Ghost being enjoyed now as much as it was in the Apostle’s days. We believe that it is necessary to make and organize the priesthood that no man can be called to fill any office in the ministry without it. We also believe in prophecy, in tongues, in visions, and in revelations, in gifts, and in healings, and that these things cannot be enjoyed without the gift of the Holy Ghost.” But then he adds his own caution, too. And this is something that resonates with me. He says, “We believe in it in all its fullness and power and greatness and glory. But whilst we do this, we believe in it rationally, reasonably, consistently, and scripturally, and not according to the wild vagaries, foolish notions and traditions of men.” So Joseph Smith is also placing some limits here in saying, It’s got to be rational. It’s got to be reasonable, consistent. It’s got to be scriptural.

Casey Griffiths:
We come back to that idea that the scriptures are the great measuring rod for things that come from God. But if it’s something that is wildly inconsistent with the scriptures, it’s probably not from God. That’s our measuring stick, basically. These verses also teach a really important principle, which is that everyone in the Church has a spiritual gift.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah, I wanted to swing back to that in verse 11, where he says, “For all have not every gift given unto them, for there are many gifts, and to every man is given a gift by the Spirit of God.” That means we have at least one. Why? Remember verse 12, so that you can benefit other people, so that all may be profited by your gift. You have a gift, at least one, from God that you can use to benefit other people. You may know what that is right now, or you may not know what that is. I remember the Prophet Joseph saying, Sometimes you don’t know your gifts until you’re put into the position where that gift is useful, and then you have the gift and you can use it. So some of you out there who are listening may not have yet fully discovered your gifts. Others of you know exactly what your gift is, at least one. I know a lot of you have many, but let’s walk through some of these gifts. He starts to talk about them and just think about you, think about what gifts you’ve been given, and if you could use your gift to benefit people, then it’s a pretty high likelihood that it’s actually from God.

Casey Griffiths:
It’s interesting where he starts the gifts, too. Verse 13 is the first official gift, which reads, “To some, it is given by the Holy Ghost to know that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that he was crucified for the sins of the world.” Now, that might not seem like a very flashy gift. It’s definitely not as spectacular as speaking in tongues or healing somebody, but the testimony of Jesus Christ is a spiritual gift. Joseph Smith said, “We believe that no man can know that Jesus is the Christ, but by the Holy Ghost.” You should know that the phrasing that he used here is not that a person may believe, but that a person may know by the power of the Holy Ghost, that Jesus is the Christ.

Scott Woodward:
I remember Elder Richard G. Scott once quoted that on an interview that Sheri Dew did with him. Then he said, To some it is given by the Holy Ghost to know that Jesus is the Son of God, that he was crucified for the sins of the world. Then he said, The word know in that verse means a lot to me and 14 of my brethren in the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. He said, That word no is really significant. It’s not a hope, it’s not a dream, it’s not a wish, it’s absolute certain knowledge. Then he bore his witness and he said, I actually know that Jesus is the son of God. It was this really powerful ending to his testimony, but he wanted to preface it by quoting verse 13 and say, I happen to be one of those who have this gift. Did it benefit anybody when he bore that testimony? Oh, man, it lit me up. In fact, it activated the next verse. I think I have verse 14, if I don’t want to boast here, but I think verse 14 is one of my gifts, Casey. “To others it is given to believe on their words that they also might have eternal life if they continue faithful.”

Scott Woodward:
Casey, it doesn’t seem like believing on the words of those who know is a secondary gift. Sometimes we like to put a premium on knowing, like to be able to say, I know with every fiber of my being. But verse 14 says, It’s okay if you don’t know, that’s a gift some have, but not everybody. To others, it’s given to believe on the words of those who know. And guess what? The reward Lord is in verse 14, for those who just believe, he says eternal life. That doesn’t sound like a secondary gift. I experience this often when Apostles bear their witness. Go back and listen to President Eyring. I’ll paraphrase it, but you can go back and get the exact wording, but he said that, I know just as much as Joseph Smith knew when he saw God, the Father, and his son, Jesus Christ, in the sacred Grove. I know just as much as the disciples on the way to Emmaus, on the road to Emmaus, know that Jesus is the Christ. He said, I am a witness of the resurrection of Jesus. There’s something in me, Casey. There’s a light that goes on in my soul when someone who actually knows bears that witness.

Scott Woodward:
I think that’s verse 14 being activated within me. Does it benefit me? It does. It does a lot, and it helps me draw closer to God. That’s how I know it’s actually from God. It’s not weird. It doesn’t feel edgy. It doesn’t feel out there. It feels crucial to salvation.

Casey Griffiths:
It’s practical, right? I love the phrase that he adds on here, too, If they continue faithful. I never pass up a chance to quote Joseph Merrill. I love him. Full disclosure, I wrote a biography of Joseph Merrill. He’s an apostle nobody’s ever heard of. But what I loved about the guy was he was a scientist, and science and faith overlapped to a large degree. But he was like, Hey, if they continue faithful means basically there is a scientific process. In fact, he says this, “Faith is one of those spiritual gifts that I believe is based on laws. We learn from the teachings of the Prophet Joseph that if we get any blessing from heaven, it’s because we fulfill the conditions upon which that blessing is based. That is a truth that not only comes from the mouth of our prophet, it’s a truth that’s been established by scientific research. Every investigator in the field of material science knows that when he fulfills the conditions, he can predict the results. If the conditions vary, then the results will vary. When the conditions are completely fulfilled, the results will be realized completely. So faith is one of those gifts that we acquire that we may cultivate only if we fulfill the conditions upon which faith is based.”

Casey Griffiths:
I love this guy because he’s basically saying, Hey, scientific method works with faith, too. We know that if you read your scriptures or pray, you will achieve certain results, that if you live a Christ-like life, it’s demonstrable. I’ve seen it in my own life over and over again. Again, it’s just that idea of it doesn’t have to be flashy, it doesn’t have to be huge, but it is a gift of the Spirit to believe.

Scott Woodward:
And to continue faithful. Don’t just believe, but continue faithful. That’s the laws upon which the blessing of eternal life is predicated.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah, because I know a ton of people who still believe, but don’t continue faithful. Honestly, eventually, that belief withers and dies. You have to continue to move, to grow, to nourish that belief, or it is going to eventually fade away. Let’s go on to verse 15, which contains probably not one of the more well-known, or let’s say flashy gifts of the Spirit. But verse 15, “It is given by some by the Holy Ghost to know the differences of administration as it will be pleasing unto the Lord.” Differences of administration.

Scott Woodward:
Here’s a commentary, an old commentary written by Hyrum M. Smith, son of Joseph F. Smith, and Janne M. Sjodahl. It seems to also be connected to what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 12, which, by the way, if you’re making a list, there are three places in scripture that list the gifts of the Spirit categorically. You got first place is 1 Corinthians 12, second place is Moroni 10, and the third place is right here in D&C 46. To paraphrase their explanation, they say that the phrase differences of administration has a connection to a phrase that Paul used in his discussion of the, quote, “different divisions or courses of service” that the priests and Levites engaged in temple service. There was these different, today we’d probably call them priesthood offices in the temple where Levites and priests did different functions. And what they do is they riff off that and they say, I’m still paraphrasing, because of this connection, they believe that the gift described here in verse 15 of differences of administration pertains specifically to an understanding of how those ordained to the priesthood should be directed in their duties and responsibilities. That’s interesting. And more recently, Church leaders have taken notice of the accompanying phrase that goes on in the same verse where the Lord says, He’ll suit his mercies according to the conditions of the children of men.

Scott Woodward:
Only the Savior really understands perfectly the conditions in which the gifts are going to be needed to handle whatever personal challenges people are in. Differences of administration may have something to do with discerning which gifts are needed to accomplish which good, to bring about which benefit, to profit which people. At a pretty high level, the differences of administration would be the differences of the gifts of the Spirit that we need in a given moment to be benefited or to be a benefit to others. And the Lord is the one who dictates that through the Spirit. So what would it mean then, Casey, for a person, for one of us, to have the gift of the differences of administration? Is this like a leadership position where there are people in your jurisdiction and you would be able to discern who has which gifts and would be suited for which roles or callings in the Church, for instance, in order to benefit which people according to their needs at a given time. Now I’m thinking of calling a particular person to be young women’s president because of the particular gifts she has and because of the particular needs that a group of young women have.

Scott Woodward:
That at this time, I can see a bishop discerning this, having the gifts of the differences of administration to discern which person would be fitting for which role at which time in order to bring about the Lord’s purposes.

Casey Griffiths:
You and I both have probably had those moments where you’re looking for a person to fulfill a position in the Church, and all of a sudden it just becomes clear. This might be an underappreciated gift in the Church, but it is one of the most frequently manifested gifts in the Church. It’s not flashy, but it is so vital because those callings do make a huge difference in the lives of all those involved.

Scott Woodward:
That would be one expression of this gift. I’m sure there’s many others. Maybe we see this also, for instance, when missionaries are called by revelation by apostles to a specific mission with a specific mission President at a specific time. Is that because the missionary has some things to learn? No doubt. But is it also because the missionary might have particular gifts matched to the needs of that particular mission? Also, no doubt.

Casey Griffiths:
All right, let’s keep going. Verse 16. “And again, it is given by the Holy Ghost to some to know the diversities of operations, whether they be of God, and that the manifestation of the Spirit may be given to every man to profit withal.” This one or the phrase diversity of operations shows up in the Bible in 1 Corinthians 12:5. This is one of those ones we can look at and say, well, there are alternate translations. In Greek, the phrase has been translated in a different version of the Bible, in the New King James version 2, difference of ministries, or in the NIV, it’s different kinds of service. It seems like in the larger context, Paul’s sermon that he’s giving here is about the body of Christ. The Lord appears to be speaking through Paul to note that there’s different kinds of service within the Church, and that one of the spiritual gifts is to recognize the value of each type of service. The apostle Paul, for instance, says, “There are many members, yet but one body, and the eye cannot say to the hand, I have no need of thee, nor the head to the feet, I have no need of you.” It’s not where you serve, it’s how.

Casey Griffiths:
It’s a spiritual gift to appreciate the value of each one of those callings. Sometimes we have people that will say things like, I’m just a ministering brother, or, I’m just a primary teacher. But understanding the value of those callings is a gift from the Spirit. This is a feature of the Church, too. I love this statement from Dallin H. Oaks. He said, “At this conference, we have seen the release of some faithful brothers, and we have sustained the callings of others. In this rotation, so familiar in the Church, we do not step down when we’re released, and we do not step up when we are called. There is no up or down in the service of the Lord. There’s only forward and backward, and that depends on how we accept and act upon our releasings and callings.”

Scott Woodward:
So what’s the difference between this gift, the diversity of operations, and the previous gift we just talked about, which is the differences of administration? They seem to both be about putting people in positions where they can flourish and be a profit to others. That’s how verse 16 ends, right? It says, “That the manifestations of the Spirit may be given to every man to profit withal,” meaning to profit other people with your gifts and to be benefited by their gifts. Putting people in a position to bless, how is that different than differences of administration?

Casey Griffiths:
I would say there are Venn diagrams that overlap to a large degree. But there is a difference between knowing where someone is supposed to serve and understanding that where you’re serving is important. There are a lot of Church members that still sort of unconsciously place this ranking of positions like, Oh, she got called to be the Relief Society President, therefore, she is the most righteous woman in the ward. And he got called to be the bishop, therefore, he’s the most righteous person in the ward. When in reality, I haven’t found that to be true. The truth is, I’ve served in a number of callings in the Church. Sometimes understanding the importance of your calling is a spiritual gift. You’re doing something, it’s important, it doesn’t reflect on your personal righteousness or the ability or skill that you have. What you’re doing is you’re serving in the kingdom. That’s a spiritual gift. I think that’s the difference between the two. We don’t really measure righteousness or blessedness, according to the office held, only to the dedication you show in carrying out the service that the Lord asks of you.

Scott Woodward:
I’d want to stress, too, that you are not to fulfill that calling the same way that the person before you fulfilled that calling. You have gifts. You have unique gifts that will be a particular blessing to the people you’re called to serve now in ways unique to you. When you’re placed in a position of being able to bless duly, as Elder J. Reuben Clark said, duly, officially in the Church. Obviously, you can use your gifts to bless whoever you want whenever you want. But when you’re duly placed in the Church in the body of Christ, you don’t have to do it like the person before you did it. Your skillset your gifts, your blessings from God are unique. The grace you’ve been given is the grace you’ve been given, and you are to use that to benefit others. I wish we could all just believe that deep in our bones and feel like a freedom that I can be who God has made me to be in this calling to be a benefit to others. As a missionary, use your gifts to bless with the gifts you got. When you lean into the gifts God has given you in the callings that you’re in, in the positions that you occupy, you’re better able to bless authentically and to be a benefit to others rather than trying to pretend to be like the person who was in there before or acting like that missionary that you really admire and you want to do it like them or that really charismatic teacher that you saw.

Scott Woodward:
I want to do it that way. It’s like, Stop. Yes, learn from other people for sure. But lean into the gifts that God has given you and watch what heaven can do through you.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah, comparison is the thief of joy, right? When we start comparing our callings with other people in the Church, it becomes a bad thing that can sour our service.

Scott Woodward:
All right, so let’s continue then verse 17. “And again, verily I say unto you, to some is given by the Spirit of God the word of wisdom.” That does not mean what we think it means. Let’s keep going here. “To another is given the word of knowledge that all may be taught to be wise and to have knowledge.” Okay, notice the pairings that are happening here. In the previous two verses, there was the gift of diversity of operations and the gift of the differences of administration. Very complementary, similar gifts. Just before that were the two gifts of knowing that Jesus is the Christ and believing on the words of those who know that Jesus is the Christ. Notice the pairing here. Now we’re getting our third pair, the gift of wisdom and the gifts of knowledge. Like you said, there’s a Venn diagram here. There’s some overlap between wisdom and knowledge here. Of course, the phrase word of wisdom is eventually going to be associated with the law of health that the Lord will give to the Church in Section 89. But this Section 89 doesn’t exist yet. We’re still here in Section 46.

Scott Woodward:
Word of wisdom means something a little different. These are two separate gifts, but related: knowledge and wisdom. For instance, Stephen L. Richards, counselor in the First Presidency, he defined wisdom as, quote, “The beneficent application of knowledge in decision. I think of wisdom not in the abstract, but as functional. Life is largely made up of choices and determinations, and I can think of no wisdom that does not contemplate the good of mankind and society. I do not believe that wisdom can be exercised in living without a sound fundamental knowledge of truth about life and living.” So knowledge is a key component of wisdom, I think he’s saying here, but wisdom is proper application. He goes on, “The fundamental knowledge which the Church brings you will bring understanding. Your testimony, your spirit, and your service will direct the application of your knowledge.” And that, he says, is wisdom.

Casey Griffiths:
So wisdom is knowledge properly applied, is what I’m taking from President Richards’ statement there, which, you know what? You and I work in fields with some very smart people, and it is such a blessing to work with people that are dedicated to learning. But I know some people that have a lot of knowledge, but not a lot of wisdom. I find myself in that category sometimes, too, where I’ve got a lot of books. You can see my shelf behind me, and I know a lot of facts, but I don’t always know the practical ways to use them. On the other hand, I know some people who do not have a lot of knowledge but possess real wisdom that can come by experience or that can just be a gift of the Spirit. There are some people that are just so wise in certain ways of knowing how to help people and knowing how to get a person what they need, and I admire them greatly. I think I’m getting better, but I would feel comfortable saying I have the gift of knowledge, but I haven’t always demonstrated the gift of wisdom, if that makes sense.

Scott Woodward:
You totally have the gift of knowledge. You can remember facts, and you remember a context, and you remember the proper positioning of those facts in relationship to others really, really well. The way I know it’s of God is because you use your gift to benefit other people, Casey. I am a beneficiary of your gifts of knowledge, and I also think you have wisdom. They do to go together. They’re not exactly the same. You want both. You want to seek both to be a benefit to others. Certainly a teacher would be one who would want to seek both the gifts of knowledge and the gifts of wisdom in order to benefit those who will be under your teachings, will receive your teachings.

Casey Griffiths:
And back at you. I see the same things present in you. It’s great to have a partner that can balance out my weaknesses and my strengths.

Scott Woodward:
Okay, here we come to our next pair. Do you want to take us into the next pair? Notice there’s two that go together again. Here they go.

Casey Griffiths:
19, 20. Okay. “And gain, to some, it is given to have faith to be healed, and to others, it is given to have faith to heal.” This is where I think we’re getting into the flashier gifts of the Spirit. This is a gift that I have seen demonstrated in the Church in the latter days. In fact, let me give you one striking example. So near the time this revelation was received, Joseph Smith exercised the gift of healing. There’s a woman named Elsa Johnson. She lives in Hiram, Ohio. She’s going to figure big into the story as we go through the Doctrine and Covenants. This is when they first meet Joseph Smith, right? They hear rumors of this gold Bible and this prophet, and they come to Kirtland where Joseph Smith is staying. The reason why they came was because Elsa had an arm that wasn’t very functional. She had rheumatism really bad. Now, Philo Dibble, who was present when the Johnsons meet with Joseph, this is what he records. He said, “Elsa went to Joseph and requested him to heal her. Joseph asked if she believed the Lord and was able to make him an instrument in healing her arm.”

Casey Griffiths:
So the gift to have faith to be healed. “She said she believed the Lord was able to heal her arm. Joseph put her off till the next morning when he met her at Brother Newel K. Whitney’s house. There were eight persons present, one a Methodist preacher and one a doctor. Joseph took her by the hand, prayed in silence a moment, pronounced her arm whole in the name of Jesus Christ, and turned and left the room. The preacher asked her if her arm was whole, and she straightened it out and replied, ‘It is as good as the other. ‘ Joseph, upon hearing this, said, ‘It is as good as the other and as liable to accident as the other.’” So Joseph Smith basically saying, It’s healed, but you don’t get a warranty. Okay, so take care of that thing if you get it. And this incident leads to the Johnson family joining the Church, which leads to Joseph and Emma staying at their home. Their home is a Church historic site today that you can go visit. It’s where Section 76 was revealed. Unfortunately, it’s where Joseph Smith was attacked by a mob also. It is also the place where the conference is held to make the decision to create a new book of scripture that will eventually become the Doctrine ad Covenants.

Casey Griffiths:
Two of John and Elsa’s sons, Luke and Lyman Johnson, also are original members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. She shows faith to be healed. He shows faith to heal. It’s a two-way street right there.

Scott Woodward:
Notice the pairs in Section 46. They’re not all pairs. Not all the gifts mentioned here are going to come in pairs, but so far they have. All of them have been coming in pairs and related gifts that mutually reinforce each other. An example of one that does not have a pair is in verse 21. “And again, to some is given the working of miracles.” This broadens it and just says miracles. The Prophet Moroni in the Book of Mormon, when he chastises those that think that the day of miracles has passed. He says, quote, “O all ye that have imagined up under yourselves a God who could do no miracles, I would ask of you, have all these things passed, of which I’ve spoken? Has the end come? Behold, I say unto you, nay. And so God has not ceased to be a God of miracles.” Scriptures show unapologetically that God is a God of miracles. Now, he’s not flashy, he doesn’t do them every day. There have been some big ones in scripture, but it’s not like he’s showing off all the time. The ministry of his son, Jesus Christ was a high-concentration period of miracles during his ministry.

Scott Woodward:
It seems like during the season of Restoration, there was another high concentration of miracles. The first being, I would say, the translation of the Book of Mormon was the first miracle. Others happened at this time. I’m going to give you a couple of dramatic ones that were happening during this time. For instance, a member named Levi Curtis. He recalled a conversation with William D. Huntington, where William described a time that Joseph Smith actually exercised the power to raise the dead. Levi is hearing this directly from the person who died, William Huntington. William said that he had become deathly ill while living in Joseph Smith’s home in Nauvoo. I’ll quote directly from Levi’s account here. Quote, “He said he had been sick some weeks and kept getting weaker until he became so helpless he could not move. Finally, he got so low he could not speak, but had perfect consciousness of all that was passing in the room. He saw friends come to the bedside and look at him a moment and commence weeping and then turn away. He further stated that he presently felt easy. And observing his situation, he found he was in the upper part of the room near the ceiling, and he could look down and see the body he had occupied lying on the bed with weeping friends.

Scott Woodward:
“About this time, he saw Joseph Smith and two other brethren come into the room. Joseph turned to his wife, Emma, and asked her to get him a dish of clean water. This she did, and the prophet, with the two brothers accompanying him, washed their hands and carefully wiped them. Then they stepped to the bed and laid their hands upon the head of his body, which at that time looked loathsome to him,” William said, “and as the three stretched out their hands to place them upon the head, he, by some means, became aware that he must go back into that body, and he started doing so. The process of getting in, he could not remember, he said. But when Joseph said, Amen, he heard and could see and could feel with his body. The feeling for a moment was most excruciating, he said, as though his body was pierced in every part with some sharp instruments. As soon as the brethren had taken their hands from his head, he raised up in bed sitting erect, and in another moment, turned his legs off to bed. At this juncture, Joseph asked him if he had not better be careful for he was very weak.

Scott Woodward:
“He replied, I never felt better in my life, almost immediately adding, I want my pants.”

Casey Griffiths:
I love this story.

Scott Woodward:
“Every looker-on was ready to weep for joy,” William said. “Every hand was anxious to supply the wants of a man who a few moments before was dead, really and truly dead,” he said. “Joseph listened to the conversation and in his turn, remarked that they had just witnessed as great a miracle as Jesus did while on the earth. They had seen the dead brought to life.” Close quote. This is not the only story of raising the dead I’ve heard. Many of them don’t get documented very well, but some do. For fun, go listen to Matthew Cowley’s BYU Speeches talk called “Miracles,” and you’ll hear a ton of cool stories there, some of them about raising the dead. Another one President Oaks gave in General Conference years ago called “Miracles.” I think it’s just called “Miracles.” He outlines some miracles that he personally has witnessed and others that he’s heard from reliable sources.

Casey Griffiths:
Miracles require eyes to see, too. Some people will look and see a coincidence or see a serendipitous arrangement of circumstances. But for those that have eyes to see, we can see miracles happening around us all the time. Do we recognize them for what they really are? It seems like the Book of Mormon especially warns us that the great epidemic of the last days will be people not seeing miracles, people standing up and saying, God doesn’t do miracles anymore. The day of miracles has passed. If we have to err, I’m okay with someone saying, Hey, I found five bucks on the road. It was a miracle, because I don’t know what their circumstances are. Maybe they needed that five bucks to buy their medication or something like that. Joseph Smith said, “I’ve never heard of a man being damned for believing too much, but they have been damned for unbelief.” All right, let’s keep going. Verse 22, very short, “And to others it is given to prophesy.” This is another one of the flashier miracles, I guess we’d say, that you can prophesy or foretell things past, present, and future. That’s how the Book of Mormon defines it.

Scott Woodward:
It’s also, I think, important to point out that prophesying is not just about telling the future. That’s where my mind goes, too. It’s like, Oh, someone told the future and it came to pass. That’s prophecy. But scripture also defines it in a really interesting way. In Revelation 19:10, it says that the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. If you can say that Jesus is the Christ, that Jesus is our Redeemer, that Jesus will come again, I guess that’s about the future, isn’t it? That Jesus is our Lord. There is something about that, that if you really have that conviction in your soul, that’s a spiritual gift. Sometimes that’s called the gift of prophecy. That seems to be related back to verse 13, to know that Jesus is the Christ. Okay, verse 23, “And to others is given the gift of discerning of spirits.” Now, this seems to be a reference to the ability to discern whether or not a spiritual manifestation has actually come from God or from another source. Spiritual manifestations were abundant among the Saints in Kirtland, but not all manifestations came from God. The prophet addressed this question actually in this revelation, and again, in another revelation that we’re going to talk about next week, D&C 50.

Scott Woodward:
So stay tuned for part two to this answer. But Joseph, he said that if you want to know if it’s from God or not, you should try the spirits. You can test the spirit to see if it came from God or Satan. He said, “We may look for angels, but we are to try the spirits and to prove them,” test them. “It’s often the case that men make a mistake in regard to these things. God has so ordained that when he has communicated no vision to be taken, but what you shall see by the seeing of the eye or what you hear by the hearing of the ear. When you see a vision, pray for the interpretation. If you get not this, shut it up.” Close quote.

Casey Griffiths:
This is going to turn into a huge theme in the Doctrine and Covenants, where Joseph Smith is very, very concerned. A lot of later sections, like Section 129 and 130, deal with this idea that it’s possible for us to be deceived. Discerning spirits is being able to know when something genuinely comes from God and when it doesn’t, because people take advantage of individuals of faith. They try to play on their senses. They try to manipulate them by presenting themselves as messengers from God. The gift of discernment allows us to look at people and say, I know that you’re not a messenger from God. Now, there’s more mechanical things that are presented in places like Section 129 and Section 130, but this is the beginning of just saying, Hey, not everybody that claims to come in the name of God is coming in the name of God. Being able to discern who is and who isn’t is a genuine spiritual gift that everybody needs to seek to acquire, that it feels like the Lord felt was a really big deal.

Scott Woodward:
There are sometimes when the discerning of spirits is a gift that we need and we don’t have it, it’s nice to have friends, family members, Church leaders who do have it that can help us to see clearly when we’re in the midst of potentially being deceived by somebody.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah, and you said something really wise there, which is not everyone possesses this gift, but if there’s doubt, it’s a good idea to go to somebody else. Like councils, I really think are blessed with the gift of discerning of spirits, to know if something’s good and comes from God or if it’s not good. There’s been a couple of times when meeting in council with other people has really saved me from making a bad decision. The next part talks about one of the most controversial gifts of the Spirit. It reads, verse 24, “And again, it’s given to some to speak with tongues, and another is given to the interpretation of tongues.” Now, we should point out the gift of speaking in tongues was really common in the early Church and manifested abundantly among the Saints in Kirtland. The type that we always think of is speaking in an unknown tongue, which definitely happened among the early Saints. It’s called glossosalia. And part of the problem is we don’t see this manifest in the Church very much today. But in the early Church, it seemed like it was all the time. There’s more examples than I can think of.

Casey Griffiths:
Like, Brigham Young speaks in tongues. Karl G. Maeser speaks in tongues. It seems like speaking in an unknown tongue is not common in the Church today. But the reason why I don’t want to put speaking in tongues in a box, because it can be learning and understanding languages. Wouldn’t you say the gift of speaking in tongues and interpreting tongues is active among missionaries? I mean, you learned a different language on your mission. Did you feel the gift of tongues when that happened?

Scott Woodward:
Yeah, in fact, when I was set apart by my stake president, he actually said these words. His hands were on my head, setting me apart as a missionary. He said, I now bless you with the gift of tongues. He said that phrase. I remember I opened my eyes. It was so dramatic. I was like, Whoa, he just said that. Then I closed them again. But a fancy term for this one is xenoglossia, spelled with an X, xenoglossia, which is like preaching the gospel in a foreign tongue, which is, I think, less dramatic than glossolalia speaking just spontaneously. It’s more common, less dramatic, whereas glossolalia is more dramatic static, less common. The question as to whether or not it’s really from God is, again, the litmus test. Is anybody benefited by it? Because if somebody stands up and just starts jabbering in some unknown tongue, and there’s not anyone who has the gift of interpretation of tongues, then you have to ask yourself, why would God give the gift of speaking in tongues to somebody when there was no companion gift of interpreting it there in the congregation, that would be God just sowing confusion.

Scott Woodward:
Our missionaries who are learning languages quickly and going out and preaching the gospel in those languages, are they benefiting anybody by that gift? Unquestionably, yeah, for sure. It’s, I think, a good test.

Casey Griffiths:
I got to point out that this was the gift that Paul, for instance, hones in on. In 1 Corinthians 13, which is the chapter after his list of the gifts of the Spirit, actually says it doesn’t really matter that much. It’s a tinkling symbol and sounding brass if you don’t have charity. And modern prophets have warned against this, too. So here’s Joseph F Smith. He said, “There is perhaps no gift of the Spirit it more easily imitated by the devil than the gift of tongues. Where two men or women exercise the gift of tongues by the inspiration of the Spirit of God, there are a dozen, perhaps, who do it by the inspiration of the devil. So far as I am concerned, if the Lord will give me ability to teach the people in my native tongue or in their own language, to the understanding of those who hear me, that will be sufficient gift of tongues to me. Yet if the Lord gives you the gift of tongues, do not despise it and do not reject it.” So it seems like he is saying too, that this manifestation does need to have a purpose, like you pointed out.

Casey Griffiths:
Joseph F. Smith served a mission in Hawaii, became fluent in the Hawaiian language. But he’s saying there’s got to be a reason for it. Another person, this is Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith, Jr., “Be not so curious about tongues. Do not speak in tongues, except there be an interpreter present. The ultimate design of tongues is to speak to foreigners. An if persons are very anxious to display their intelligence, let them speak to such in their own tongues. The gifts of God are all useful in their place, but when they are applied to that which God does not intend, they prove an injury, a snare, and a curse instead of a blessing.” So this is the trickiest of the gifts of the Spirit, because speaking in an unknown tongue, for example, is very flashy and can cause people to say, Oh, that person’s feeling the Spirit. How come I’m not having the same kind of manifestations? But two prophets have warned and basically said, No, it’s got to be with purpose. And if it’s not happening with the purpose, if it’s just happening for the cause to make you look amazing, it can be a snare and can prove an injury.

Casey Griffiths:
Those are the words of Joseph Smith.

Scott Woodward:
2 Nephi 32. He opens up the possibility that this might not just be speaking in an unknown tongue. In 2 Nephi 32, he talks about speaking with the tongue of angels, where he says this. He says, once you receive the Holy Ghost, I’m quoting from verse 2, you can speak with the tongue of angels. Now, how can you speak with the tongue of angels, save it were by the Holy Ghost? Ghost. And then he drops this insight, Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost, wherefore they speak the words of Christ. Let’s let that sink in for a second. Could another application, like you said, we don’t want to box this gift in, but could another application of the gift of tongues and speaking with the tongue of angels by the power of the Holy Ghost be when you speak the words of Christ, when you speak in English on your mission in Florida, Casey, did you have this gift of tongues, right? Being able to speak in English the words Christ by the power of the Holy Ghost. Nephi calls that also speaking. He doesn’t say in tongues. He calls it speaking with the tongue of angels.

Scott Woodward:
So maybe another food for thought on that. I’m not sure Section 46 is really talking about that or not, but throw that into the mix of speaking in tongues.

Casey Griffiths:
So that is the complete list. The next verse says, “All these gifts come from God for the benefit of the children of God,” and then adds, “and unto the bishop of the Church, and unto such as God shall appoint and retain to to watch over the Church and be elders unto the Church, are to have it given unto them to discern those gifts, lest there should be any among you professing, and yet be not of God.” And so he wraps it up by saying, These gifts are given to the members of the Church, but there is a gift of discernment given to presiding officers in the Church. So at the time the revelation is given, there’s really only one bishop. It’s Edward Partridge, who’s just been called a few sections earlier. But the system that we eventually develop of presiding Church officers, and this might include stake presidents, bishops, Relief Society presidents, and others, that God appoints and ordains, that’s the wording here, to watch over the Church, is gradually revealed. The principle here is that presiding officers in the Church are given the power to discern if a gift comes from God.

Scott Woodward:
And verses 28 through 32, basically, is an instruction to a Church leader of how to seek those gifts to discern that. We don’t necessarily need to read all the verses. We’re starting to wax long here, but go check out verses 28 through 32 on how to do that.

Casey Griffiths:
Basically, yes, leaders are given discernment in order to understand what gifts come from God and what gifts don’t. Boyd K. Packer, for instance, said, “There is a power of discernment granted unto such as God shall appoint to watch over his Church. To discern means to see. To see clearly what is ahead and yet find members slow to respond or resistant to counsel or even rejecting the witness of the Apostles and prophets brings deep sorrow. Nevertheless, the responsibility of leading this Church must rest upon us until you shall appoint others to succeed you.”

Scott Woodward:
All right, let’s talk about controversies in Section 46, Casey. Here’s one that tends to come up, a question about this section. Can those not of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have spiritual gifts? Do they have spiritual gifts? If so, is there any difference between the spiritual gifts given to non-members of this church and those who are in the Church?

Casey Griffiths:
Yes to the first question. I think people that aren’t members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints can manifest spiritual gifts, just because there are so many examples coming to mind off the top of my head. Karl G. Maeser has the gift of speaking and interpreting in tongues. The first time he meets with the missionaries. He’s speaking German, they’re speaking English. They have a perfectly fluent conversation with each other, and he was not a member of the Church.

Scott Woodward:
I’m thinking of Joseph Smith translating the Book of Mormon. He translated the whole thing without being a member of this church. There was no church.

Casey Griffiths:
That’s a big one, right? But in my own individual life, I saw people, when I was a missionary and in my Church service since, demonstrate the gifts of the Spirit before they were baptized and given the gift of the Holy Ghost. There’s no doubt in my mind, yeah, that people from other churches, from other religions, can access the gifts of the Spirit.

Scott Woodward:
If the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy, I have seen countless people outside of our church who have a testimony that Jesus really is the Christ. So I’ve heard some quote verse 10 as saying that these gifts are unique to the Church, where he says, “Again, verily I say unto you, I would that you should always remember and always retain in your minds what those gifts are that are given unto the Church.” So I’ve heard some people interpret verse 10 as to say, See, these gifts are only for members of the Church. But you and I believe something that Nephi calls in 1 Nephi 14, the Church of the Lamb of God, where if you look at that, that’s bigger than just the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. But it’s all those who believe in God trying to follow him according to their best understanding. And in verse 14 of chapter 14, Nephi sees the Spirit of God being poured out upon them and strengthening them, arming them with righteousness and the power of God. And we’ve had prophet says recently, I think, as President Oaks, who said that those of the Church of the Lamb of God, that’s bigger than just the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Scott Woodward:
And so for me, that’s how I reconcile it, Casey, is I think that, yes, they are meant for the Church, verse 10 is saying. But it’s not just the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It’s that bigger church that Jesus was referring to in Doctrine and Covenants 10 we talked about, where he says, Those who repent and come unto me, those are my church. We’re all about wanting to baptize all mankind eventually, right? This is going to culminate in Nauvoo, and we get baptisms for the dead. We’re not saying that we don’t believe there is a center place where you do need to receive the ordinances and eventually gain that legal administration to make you an heir of the Kingdom of God. But what the scripture seemed to bear out is that when you believe in Christ and have faith in God and try to come unto and repent, narrowing these gifts to those who have been baptized in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints might be too narrow of an interpretation based on what other scripture says and based on, I think, what we can observe with wonderful people who repent, come unto God the best they know how.

Scott Woodward:
And it’s almost like the Spirit can’t hold back. It’s almost like when people show the fruits of faith and repentance and coming to God, it’s almost like heaven just rewards that. And the fruits of the spirit of gentleness and meekness and patience and goodness and kindness, all of that just starts to flow almost immediately. And then they start being a benefit to those around them in cool ways. I think that’s all leading up to becoming part of God’s official kingdom on Earth. But I think the gifts of the Spirit come earlier, Casey. Is that okay? Is that heretical? Or what do you think about that?

Casey Griffiths:
There’s a difference between receiving the gifts of the Spirit, which I believe any child of God can do, and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, which means you’ve made a sacred covenant with God, is different. But God works among all people. He’s no respecter of persons. But I do believe the promises made in the covenants to the believers in God, to those that are baptized and confirmed by authority, do bring special blessings. Another controversy, is this the complete list of the gifts of the Spirit? You noted that there’s another list given by Paul in 1 Corinthians 12-13, and Moroni gives a that is very similar to Section 46 in the last chapter of the Book of Mormon. The question is, is this the complete list? There are several Church leaders that seem to say, No, it’s not. Bruce R. McConkie said, “Spiritual gifts are endless in number and infinite in variety, those listed in the revealed word are simply illustrations of the boundless outpouring of divine grace God gives those who love and serve him.” He would say, Now, this is to get you going, but they’re illustrations, but they’re not the complete list, and a complete list doesn’t exist.

Casey Griffiths:
Another apostle, this was Marvin J. Ashton, said, “Taken at random, let me mention a few gifts that are not always evident or noteworthy, but that are very important. Among these may be your gifts, gifts not so evident but nevertheless real and valuable.” He said, “Let’s take a moment to review some of the less conspicuous gifts, the gift of asking, the gift of listening, the gift of hearing, and using the still small voice, the gift of avoiding contention, the gift of being agreeable, the gift of avoiding vain repetition, the gift of seeking that which is righteous, the gift of not passing judgment, the gift of looking to God for guidance, the gift of being a disciple, the gift of caring for others, the gift of being able to ponder, the gift of offering prayer, the gift of bearing a mighty testimony, and the gift of receiving the Holy Ghost.” I’m with Elder Ashton, and I think Elder Ashton would have said, and that’s not the complete list either. I’m just adding in a few things that don’t seem to be evident in those three scriptural passages, but that he personally had witnessed, and some of those I’ve witnessed, too.

Casey Griffiths:
If you’re sitting there thinking, I don’t have anything that’s in Section 46 or Moroni 10 or 1 Corinthians 12-13, don’t despair. You have a gift. It might not be one that’s been named in the scriptures. But you do have a gift, and you have the right to cultivate new gifts, too.

Scott Woodward:
One of the ways to just cut through the noise of like, Which gift is my gift? Is just to, I think, again, ask the fundamental question that Section 46 is offering, which is, do you have any gifts that can benefit other people? Do you have any gifts that you notice help and profit people and help them draw closer to God or help them receive comfort or help in any way? If you’ve got that, that seems to be a gift from God. That’s how you can discern that it’s really from him. It’s not from the devil. It’s not just the made-up man one. It’s one that actually helps people come closer to God. All right, let’s go then to the consequences of Section 46.

Casey Griffiths:
One consequence, Visitors welcome. On every Latter=day Saint Chapel, there is a sign that says, Visitors welcome. We got that settled. I think we’re even more open than a lot of other churches. A lot of other churches don’t practice open communion, meaning you can come to the church, but you don’t participate in the ordinances. In our church, there’s been a little controversy on this, but it seems like someone shows up, they want to take the sacrament. Great.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah. In fact, President Nelson actually highlighted that very point when he said, quote, “Because we invite all to come into Christ, friends and neighbors are always welcome but not expected to take the sacrament.” I don’t think that’s very well understood in the Church right now, Casey. I think some would say that if you’re baptized, you can take the sacrament. If you’re not baptized, then please don’t. Children can because they haven’t been baptized yet, but they’re not accountable. President Nelson is saying here, It’s okay. Our friends and neighbors are always welcome but not expected to take the sacrament. He said, “However, it is not forbidden. They choose for themselves. We hope that newcomers among us will always be made to feel wanted and comfortable. Little children, as sinless beneficiaries of the Lord’s Atonement,” he says, “may partake of the sacrament as they prepare for covenants that they will make later in life.” Close quote. That is called open communion. You can come in, partake of the sacrament with us. If you’re sincerely seeking the Kingdom of God, come. This section also provides this framework that there is such thing as doctrines of devils and commandments of men and true gifts of God.

Scott Woodward:
So how do we discern those? I think one of the greatest benefits of Section 46 is to teach us that these gifts are given, like verse 26 said, that all may profit thereby. So if it doesn’t profit, then it’s not from God. It might be from man, it might be from the devil. I don’t always know how to distinguish between the two, but I do know if it doesn’t help anybody, if it doesn’t edify anybody, if it doesn’t benefit anybody, then it’s not a gift from God, and that’s how you can discern it. That’s a really cool takeaway from Section 46. Such a clear way to distinguish divine versus not. Casey, we have been going for over an hour with just Section 46, and so we’re going to call this part one of this week. So stay tuned for part two, Section 47, 48. We’ll just do that in a separate video so that you can do this broken up, and it’s not so long. Is that okay?

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. We had too much to chew on here, and that’s okay. This is going to be part one, and in part two, we’ll pick it up with Section 47 and 48.