Scott Woodward:
Temples: It’s difficult to overestimate their importance in the Latter-day Saint movement. In fact, it could be said that what is accomplished inside Latter-day Saint temples is at the beating heart of the purposes of the Restoration. In today’s episode of Church History Matters, we begin a new series exploring the development of Latter-day Saint temple worship. We’re starting at the very beginning and probing such questions as, how early on did Joseph Smith understand the temple-centric nature of his prophetic mission? What is the meaning of the word endowment? Which was the first temple commanded to be built in our day, and which temple was actually built first? And how are we to make sense of what appears to be a failed prophecy in D&C 84 about the building of the Missouri Temple in the first generation of the church? I’m Scott Woodward, a managing director at Scripture Central, and my co-host is Casey Griffiths, also a managing director at Scripture Central, and today Casey and I dive into our first episode in this series dealing with the development of Latter-day Saint temple worship. Now let’s get into it. Hi, Casey.

Casey Griffiths:
Hi. How are you?

Scott Woodward:
So good.

Casey Griffiths:
So good. I’m better than good because we’re starting a new series.

Scott Woodward:
Yes.

Casey Griffiths:
And this is one we’ve wanted to do for a really long time.

Scott Woodward:
And it’s come highly requested by several listeners, actually.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah, several of our listeners have said, can you guys take this on? The topic is the development of Latter-day Saint temple worship.

Scott Woodward:
Ah, shoot.

Casey Griffiths:
That’s juicy.

Scott Woodward:
This is juicy.

Casey Griffiths:
That’s a big old watermelon, to be honest with you. And you should know, too, Scott and I came up with the idea for this podcast while we were in Nauvoo doing a video on the development of temple worship.

Scott Woodward:
Yes.

Casey Griffiths:
On the drive back from Nauvoo to St. Louis, we brainstormed all the stuff that we’ve been doing for the last year or so.

Scott Woodward:
That’s right.

Casey Griffiths:
This is a return. This is us going back to the mothership, Scott. This is us going back to the source.

Scott Woodward:
This is it. And listeners will notice on our Church History Matters podcast, like, logo, it is a temple.

Casey Griffiths:
That’s right. Temple being deconstructed.

Scott Woodward:
Or is it being constructed? We’ll let you bring your own interpretation to the symbol. But I think the reason that we went with the temple, especially the Nauvoo temple, is because ultimately at the end of the day, dear listeners, the Restoration is about what happens in the temple.

Casey Griffiths:
Absolutely. Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
That is the crowning capstone of Joseph Smith’s prophetic career. He created the prototype of the Restoration, and his successors have been scaling it ever since. They’ve been scaling that.

Casey Griffiths:
Yep.

Scott Woodward:
That’s the thing. And so, really, the story of the Restoration is the story of how we get temples, isn’t it, Casey? And then what we do inside them, why it matters and where this is all going, right?

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. And another good reason why this is timely is there are so many temples being built right now.

Scott Woodward:
All over the place.

Casey Griffiths:
There’s been a quantum leap in the number of temples and where they’re being built. It used to be that I’d get up in my class and say, hey, there’s going to be a temple dedication in Payson. You guys need to go, because it could be years before there’s another one of those, and now I get up in class and say, if you guys don’t go to the Orem open house, it’s going to be weeks before there’s another open house.

Scott Woodward:
Until you can go to Saratoga Springs or whatever.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. If you don’t catch it now, you’re going to have to wait until Lindon or Deseret Peak or Taylorsville or Layton or—and I live in Utah, but man alive, we live in the greatest season of temple building in the history of the church.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah.

Casey Griffiths:
And that’s saying something.

Scott Woodward:
It’s probably safe to say in the history of earth.

Casey Griffiths:
In the history of earth, yeah.

Scott Woodward:
I don’t think any time that the gospel has been on the earth, there’s ever been a proliferation of temples the way there is now. So something is afoot, Casey Griffiths.

Casey Griffiths:
Something’s going on. Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
And something is working really, really well, and it’s where the Restoration was intending to go all along, and so we’re excited to talk about it.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. And I’ve got to say, I teach in a city, Provo, where there’s two temples. You’re in Rexburg.

Scott Woodward:
Yes.

Casey Griffiths:
And there’s going to be two temples in Rexburg.

Scott Woodward:
It’s so wild. It is so wild.

Casey Griffiths:
There aren’t two Walmarts in Rexburg.

Scott Woodward:
There is one Walmart in Rexburg, and there’s going to be two temples that are, like, a mile apart, and they’re both on the same street.

Casey Griffiths:
They’re going to be on the same street? Is that right?

Scott Woodward:
Two temples on the same street, and . . .

Casey Griffiths:
Wow.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah. They’re really not very far apart from one another. So it’s very exciting to see temples proliferating, and if there’s not a temple near you now, hold on: there will be, right?

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. We’re going to get there. We’re going to get there. More temples than Maveriks in Rexburg in the next couple of years, so.

Scott Woodward:
Not false.

Casey Griffiths:
That’s pretty cool. At the same time, too, I teach about the development of temple worship in my classes, and I’ve noticed whenever you bring this up, there’s a little bit of tension in the room.

Scott Woodward:
Oh. Why is that?

Casey Griffiths:
Well, you know, it’s sacred, right? The moment you take something sacred and you make it a little academic, there’s hesitation, like, hey, should we be taking this apart? Or is a classroom the right place to do this? Some people here haven’t been through the temple, and what happens in the temple is sacred.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah.

Casey Griffiths:
We could ask, is a podcast a proper place to talk about the development of temple worship?

Scott Woodward:
Is it appropriate for us to talk about this?

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. Well, I think it is, and I want to stress to our listeners, we’re going to err on the side of caution when it comes to this, because we believe in keeping things that are sacred, sacred. But at the same time, too, when you review what the leaders of the church have said, especially recently, I think we’ve got a lot of leeway here to discuss how temple worship has developed, what its history is, what the theology is surrounding it. We’re going to keep sacred things sacred, but we’ve got a lot of room to explore.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah, wanting to keep sacred things sacred is good, but not talking about sacred things brings with it some unintended negative consequences. And there’s this really remarkable talk, one of the best ever, honestly, on this topic. It’s back in 1985 by President Ezra Taft Benson.

Casey Griffiths:
Okay.

Scott Woodward:
It’s actually called, “What I Hope You Will Teach Your Children About the Temple.”

Casey Griffiths:
Nice!

Scott Woodward:
In there, he gives this caution: he says, “The temple is a sacred place, and the ordinances in the temple are of a sacred character. Because of its sacredness, we are sometimes reluctant to say anything about the temple.” And that’s what you’re saying. Your students are kind of feeling, uh, should we talk about this?

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
But then he says this: “As a consequence, many do not develop a real desire to go to the temple, or when they go there, they do so without much background to prepare them for the obligations and covenants they enter into.” See, and that’s the negative unintended consequence of not talking about the temple, right? So it sounds like church leaders would like us to talk about the temple, but to do it in a sacred way.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
And it seems like church leaders have recently been talking more and more about this, haven’t they, Casey?

Casey Griffiths:
Correct. I will see your Ezra Taft Benson and raise you a David A. Bednar.

Scott Woodward:
Ah, shoot.

Casey Griffiths:
David A. Bednar gave a talk in April 2019. This was right after the big initiative to make church more home centered. “Home centered, church supported” was the mantra.

Scott Woodward:
Yes.

Casey Griffiths:
Elder Bednar gave this talk where he said, hey, if we’re shifting to home centered, then the most important temple preparation is going to take place in your home. But he also said this: many church members are unsure about what appropriately can and cannot be said regarding the temple experience outside the temple. So Elder Bednar gave two guidelines, and I share these in my classes before we start talking about temples, as to what we should follow. And we’re going to try and follow these guidelines in this series as we discuss it. So this is directly from Elder Bednar. “Guideline 1. Because we love the Lord, we should always speak about His holy house with reverence. We should not disclose or describe the special symbols associated with the covenants we receive in sacred temple ceremonies, neither should we discuss the holy information that we specifically promise in the temple not to reveal.”

Scott Woodward:
Let the temple be your guide there, right? The temple explicitly says, don’t talk about this part.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. Don’t talk about this outside the temple. That’s part of the temple liturgy, okay?

Scott Woodward:
Yeah.

Casey Griffiths:
But, “Guideline two. The temple is the house of the Lord. Everything in the temple points us to our Savior, Jesus Christ. We may discuss the basic purposes and the doctrine and principles associated with temple ordinances and covenants.” So Elder Bednar is basically saying, hey, there’s stuff that we covenant not to talk about that’s described as sacred that needs to stay in the temple, but the basic purposes of the doctrine and principles associated with temple ordinances and covenants, that’s okay.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah.

Casey Griffiths:
And I would also add, the basic history surrounding the development of temple worship, probably okay. I don’t think I’m stepping too far if I say that.

Scott Woodward:
A hundred percent. And the things that we’re explicitly asked not to reveal in the temple are a very small percentage of what goes on in the temple.

Casey Griffiths:
Correct. Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
It is very tiny. And so, yeah, there’s so much we could talk about. And I’d add a few just quick rules of thumb here, and I think you’re already modeling this, Casey, but that is if it’s taught by the brethren, then we can talk about it.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
Right? They’ve actually taught a lot about the temple, what goes on in the temple, and another rule of thumb is if it’s in the scriptures, we can talk about it, right?

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
And number three, if it’s published by the church, we can talk about it. There’s a ton of resources available right now that you can go and learn a ton about the temple, way more than we could even twenty years ago.

Casey Griffiths:
Oh, yeah.

Scott Woodward:
You know, videos showing temple garments and kind of talking about the temple robes and stuff like that. Super interesting videos inside temples, showing the rooms, right? Going on tours with apostles through open houses. I mean, there’s some great stuff.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. I have—there’s a video where two apostles, I think it’s Elder Bednar and Elder Rasband, correct me if I’m wrong, actually tour you through the Rome temple.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah. So cool.

Casey Griffiths:
And so there’s a ton of stuff, and if you’re familiar with Gospel Library, there’s a ton of stuff under Gospel Library. There’s videos where they show the temple clothing, where they talk about its purpose. They do so in a super classy and respectful way, but it’s there. And also in the last two years, it’s become really common to talk about the five covenants that we make within the temple, just in open discourse. Like, they’re right there in the temple preparation materials as well on Gospel Library. So there’s a lot of freedom, and, again, we’re going to err on the side of caution.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah. I guess the final piece of guidance, I would say, that kind of overarches all of it is D&C 63:64, which says this: “Remember that that which cometh from above is sacred, and must be spoken with care, and by constraint of the Spirit, and in this there is no condemnation, and you receive the Spirit through prayer, wherefore without this there remaineth condemnation. So it’s not just what we talk about, Casey, but how we choose to talk about it, right? So our pledge with this series is to speak of sacred things with the kind of care and the kind of constraint that they deserve, but to speak of them.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
We want to speak of them.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
Because we believe that knowing the history of Latter-day Saint temples and temple worship can make your experience of attending the temple much more rich, much more meaningful, and when you have the chance to teach others, teach your own children and teach whoever, wherever about the temple, you’ll do so with much more confidence.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
That’s why we want to do this, ultimately.

Casey Griffiths:
And let me add two things here: number one, when I went through the temple, I was surprised at how much of it actually is already in the scriptures. It’s already out there. It was just, like, the temple takes a little highlighter and highlights these passages and says, hey, this was more important than maybe you realize. The second thing I would say is, don’t go to the temple unprepared. Knowledge is power. Preparation is power. The more you know going into the temple, generally the more positive experience you’ll have. And even if you’ve been to the temple hundreds of times, I think what we’re going to talk about here will deepen the experience and make it more meaningful for you the next time that you go to the temple.

Scott Woodward:
That’s what it’s done for us.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. You put in a quote here from President Benson. President Benson said, “I believe a proper understanding or background will foster within us a desire to seek our priesthood blessings just as Abraham sought his.”

Scott Woodward:
Yeah. When did it first enter into Joseph Smith’s mind, do you think, that he would be asked by the Lord to build temples? Should we walk through this? We play this game called, when did Joseph Smith first understand he’d build temples?

Casey Griffiths:
Let’s do it. Yeah. What a name for a game, too. I think the marketing department might have, like, a few suggestions, yeah.

Scott Woodward:
Because it’s interesting, right? Like, is—if this is so central to the Restoration, we might wonder if it was presented to Joseph Smith early on by the Lord, right?

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
Maybe let’s go as early as we can. Let’s go to the First Vision.

Casey Griffiths:
So was the temple mentioned in the First Vision? We’ve done a whole series on the First Vision.

Scott Woodward:
That’s true.

Casey Griffiths:
Does it come up in any of the accounts? What’s your take?

Scott Woodward:
Yeah. So as we look at the various accounts that Joseph Smith gave, and as we look at the secondhand accounts of those who heard Joseph Smith share his First Vision, we cannot find anything that explicitly mentions the temple, can we? But there is a little in there.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
There’s some breadcrumbs that—the Lord did tell him that “the everlasting covenant was broken.” That was in the Levi Richards account.

Casey Griffiths:
Right.

Scott Woodward:
And then he promised him that “the fullness of the gospel should at some future time be made known unto me.” And that’s the 1842 account. So is the everlasting covenant and the fullness of the gospel relevant to temples and temple theology, Casey?

Casey Griffiths:
Oh, yeah. And you mentioned Levi Richards. It’s in Levi Richards’ handwriting, secondhand account of the First Vision.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah.

Casey Griffiths:
In 1843 is interesting. That’s when that account is written down, right when Joseph was in the midst of setting up the Nauvoo temple and the men and women that are going to receive the ordinances and pass them on there. So it’s on his mind.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah.

Casey Griffiths:
It may have been a situation where it was always there, too, he just needed somebody to kind of point it out to him.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah. He was in a meeting where one of the elders had quoted Isaiah about the everlasting covenant being broken there, and Joseph stood up and said, I want to actually say something about that, because when I was a young man, 14 years old, then he starts telling the First Vision story, and he says, the Lord actually told me that that’s the case. He actually told me that that’s happening now, that the everlasting covenant was broken. And then he went on. So that’s the only time we get Joseph explicitly saying that phrase as part of the First Vision, but there it is. And then the equivalent term of the everlasting covenant is the fullness of the gospel. Doctrine and Covenants will use these terms interchangeably.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
So the 1842 account, right, saying “the fullness of the gospel [will] at some future time be made known unto me,” is really important. Now, did Joseph have any understanding when he was 14 years old that this had any connection with temples or temple theology? There’s no real indication of that.

Casey Griffiths:
It’d be a little bit of a reach, right, if we said he did?

Scott Woodward:
Yeah. But in hindsight, we say, ooh, we can see what the Lord is doing. There’s some breadcrumbs.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
We’ll call them temple breadcrumbs right there.

Casey Griffiths:
The Lord’s laying the foundation.

Scott Woodward:
Yes. So not explicitly in the First Vision.

Casey Griffiths:
Not in the First Vision. What about the second vision? The experience with Moroni when he’s 17. Any mention of the temple in Moroni and Joseph’s interactions?

Scott Woodward:
Yeah, as we look at all the accounts of Moroni’s first visit to Joseph, he’s 17 years old, we find nothing explicitly about the temple, but Moroni does quote Malachi 4:5-6 in a very interesting way, where he’s speaking of Elijah revealing the priesthood, how the promises made to the ancient fathers will be planted in the hearts of the living children, and how the children’s hearts will then turn to their fathers. In all this the earth will realize the measure of its creation. Now all of that, Joseph will later come to learn, was a slantwise reference, an oblique reference, to the work that the living children, the living descendants of the ancient covenant people will do for their dead ancestors in the temples of God in the last days. Joseph will be explicit about this in Nauvoo.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
Particularly about the work of sealing children to their fathers and fathers to their children.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
But there’s no indication that Joseph understood it as such at the time, when he was 17. More seeds being planted, more breadcrumbs being laid out, but no explicit mention of temple. But foundation work is definitely being laid.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. And a lot of stuff that’s going to tie into temple teaching found in that. By the way, there’s Joseph Smith’s account, which mentions a bunch of Old Testament prophecies. There’s Oliver Cowdery’s account of this visit from the Messenger and Advocate that has a bunch of Old Testament prophecies in it. And so. . .

Scott Woodward:
Yeah.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. Kind of, I guess you’d say, the groundwork is still being laid.

Scott Woodward:
I mean, the upshot of most of those prophecies centers on the ultimate work of gathering and fulfilling God’s covenant promises with Israel, right?

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
If the temple is not about ultimately the gathering of Israel, then I don’t know what the temple is about, Casey.

Casey Griffiths:
Absolutely.

Scott Woodward:
So there you go. Oblique references, but nothing yet explicit.

Casey Griffiths:
Right. So next thing, I guess, would be he translates the Book of Mormon. Is the temple in the Book of Mormon? Eh . . .

Scott Woodward:
There are temples in the Book of Mormon.

Casey Griffiths:
There are temples in the Book of Mormon. For instance, I quote 2 Nephi 5:16. This is after the Nephites have arrived in the Americas: “And I, Nephi, did build a temple. I did construct it after the manner of the temple of Solomon.”

Scott Woodward:
Bam.

Casey Griffiths:
“Save it were not built of so many precious things. For they were not to be found upon the land. Therefore it could not be like unto Solomon’s temple, but the manner of construction was like unto the temple of Solomon, and the workmanship thereof was exceedingly fine.” So the Nephites had some kind of temple.

Scott Woodward:
There it is. And that would be, what, 1829 when Joseph’s translating that, right?

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. And it mentions a temple in the land of Bountiful. That’s where Jesus appears to the Nephites.

Scott Woodward:
That’s right.

Casey Griffiths:
That’s probably not insignificant. And it also talks about their temple worship changing in 3 Nephi 9: “Ye shall offer,” this is 3 Nephi 9:19, “offer up unto me no more the shedding of blood. Yea, your sacrifices and your burnt offerings shall be done away, for I will accept none of your sacrifices and your burnt offerings.”

Scott Woodward:
And those are explicitly done at the temple.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah, those are Old Testament, Law of Moses things. So it appears that at these temples that the Nephites built, they were practicing the laws of liturgy that’s found in the book of Leviticus.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah. So the Book of Mormon is a text about a people who largely have in the background some sort of temple liturgy.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. And that’s partially because, man, temple liturgy is so big in the Law of Moses. It’s impossible to talk about the Law of Moses without talking about temple liturgy. And there’s tons of discussions in the Book of Mormon about the Law of Moses and what’s to come and what will happen with the Law of Moses, and the temple’s kind of wrapped up in all that stuff, too, right?

Scott Woodward:
Right. Okay, so the Book of Mormon itself is not prophesying about any temples being built in the latter days, though, right?

Casey Griffiths:
Well, kind of.

Scott Woodward:
Ah, shoot. Go, Casey, go.

Casey Griffiths:
There’s two words that pop up in the Book of Mormon that resonate with the early members of the church in a big way.

Scott Woodward:
Okay.

Casey Griffiths:
For instance, a guy named Grant Underwood did a survey of early church literature and asked what passages in the Book of Mormon did early members of the church quote the most. And today we would think, oh gosh, 3 Nephi 11, that’s when Jesus shows up, or 2 Nephi 2, that talks about the purpose of life, or Moroni 7, which is about charity, and it’s beautiful, or Moroni 10, which has the promise to know the Book of Mormon’s true. But weirdly enough, Grant Underwood’s survey came back and found that the most quoted passages in the Book of Mormon and early church literature were 3 Nephi 21 and Ether chapter 13.

Scott Woodward:
Hmm. Interesting.

Casey Griffiths:
At the top of your head, can you tell me what those passages are about?

Scott Woodward:
3 Nephi 21 is Jesus’s sermon and prophecy about the future of the house of Israel, isn’t it?

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
And Ether 13 is Ether’s prophecy about the New Jerusalem and the Old Jerusalem and then the other New Jerusalem, correct?

Casey Griffiths:
That’s correct. Yeah. Ether 13, for instance, verses 4 and 5, “Ether saw the days of Christ, and he spake concerning a New Jerusalem upon this land.”

Scott Woodward:
Oh, upon this land.

Casey Griffiths:
This land.

Scott Woodward:
Okay.

Casey Griffiths:
“And he spake also concerning the house of Israel, and the Jerusalem from whence Lehi should come—after it should be destroyed it should be built up again, a holy city unto the Lord; wherefore, it could not be a new Jerusalem for it had been in a time of old; but it should be built up again, and become a holy city of the Lord; and it should be built up unto the house of Israel.”

Scott Woodward:
Oh, so some people were, like, speculating that the New Jerusalem could just mean the rebuilding of the old Jerusalem. And he’s saying, no.

Casey Griffiths:
Ether’s saying, nope, that’s still the old Jerusalem. Verse 6 in Ether 13, “A New Jerusalem should be built . . . upon this land, unto the remnant of the seed of Joseph, for which things there has been a type.” So when you say Jerusalem, what makes Jerusalem special? It’s the temple, right?

Scott Woodward:
Absolutely. Yeah. That’s at the heart.

Casey Griffiths:
That’s at the heart. In fact, you and I have been to Jerusalem.

Scott Woodward:
Yes.

Casey Griffiths:
They have a pretty good feeling for the outline of the city, the boundaries of the city, in the time that Nephi and Lehi would have left.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah.

Casey Griffiths:
And it’s fair to say that Jerusalem was a temple with a city attached.

Scott Woodward:
That’s a great way to say it.

Casey Griffiths:
When you look at the size and the dimensions, the temple dominated every part of Jerusalem. It’s built in the tallest part of Jerusalem. There’s this immense platform created so that they have a space to build the temple on. And to any person in the 19th century who’s literate in the Bible, and the saints really were literate in the Bible—

Scott Woodward:
Yeah.

Casey Griffiths:
—when you say Jerusalem, you’re talking about a temple.

Scott Woodward:
So New Jerusalem also implies a temple, is what you’re saying.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah, and Jesus explicitly mentions that in 3 Nephi 21, right? Not the temple, but he explicitly says—let’s see. I’m going to verse 23: “And they,” meaning the Gentiles, “shall assist my people, the remnant of Jacob, and also as many of the house of Israel as shall come, that they may build a city, which shall be called the New Jerusalem. And then shall they assist my people that they may be gathered in, who are scattered upon all the face of the land, in unto the New Jerusalem. And then shall the power of heaven come down among them; and I also will be in their midst.” So he’s very explicit that in the future, on this land, there will be a New Jerusalem. These are the words of Jesus. Doesn’t get more pure than that. If I understand what you’re saying right, Casey, you’re suggesting that even though this isn’t prophesying of a temple explicitly, a prophecy about a New Jerusalem is implicitly suggesting a temple. Is that correct?

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah, it doesn’t seem like there’s any way around it if you’re biblically literate, and the early saints were obsessed with this idea of a New Jerusalem. Just to illustrate, Doctrine and Covenants 28, which is sort of the first big ecclesiastical crisis in the church.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah. It didn’t take long.

Casey Griffiths:
It didn’t take long. A couple months. Hiram Page, who’s one of the eight witnesses of the Book of Mormon, is receiving revelations for the church, and it raises the question of, well, anybody can get revelation, so who can get revelation for the whole church?

Scott Woodward:
Right.

Casey Griffiths:
What was Hiram Page getting revelations about? According to several sources, the New Jerusalem and its location. And eventually they resolved the ecclesiastical crisis. Doctrine and Covenants 28 says, hey, revelation comes to stewardship.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah.

Casey Griffiths:
But it’s also the first time the Lord gives a clue as to where the New Jerusalem is going to be, and he says it’ll be on the borders by the Lamanites. And the other thing that happens in Doctrine and Covenants 28 is Oliver Cowdery, the second elder in the church—church really only has two general authorities at the time.

Scott Woodward:
Joseph and Oliver.

Casey Griffiths:
It’s a big deal that Oliver Cowdery is called to lead a mission to the borders of the United States and identify the New Jerusalem.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah.

Casey Griffiths:
In fact, you’ve done some good research and found that Oliver Cowdery might be the first person to explicitly say a temple.

Scott Woodward:
That’s right, yeah.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. Tell us about that.

Scott Woodward:
Shortly after D&C 28 is received, Oliver Cowdery, in connection with three other gentlemen, who are called in sections 30 and 32 to join him on this mission, he actually writes out and then signs a covenant that basically outlines what his aims were, what he intended to accomplish on the mission. Of course, number one was to preach to the Lamanites, but number two, he said, was, “to rear up a pillar as a witness where the temple of God shall be built in the glorious New Jerusalem.” So, bam, that’s the earliest I can find. That’s the 17th of October, 1830, explicit mention of a temple. And it does grow directly out of the New Jerusalem prophecies that are in the Book of Mormon and that are beginning to show up in the Doctrine and Covenants.

Casey Griffiths:
Right. And even before Oliver Cowdery leaves on this mission to the Lamanites, he and Joseph have already embarked on the second great translation project, which is to translate the Bible.

Scott Woodward:
Yes.

Casey Griffiths:
And in translating the Bible, new texts are received, chiefly the book of Moses, which greatly supplements the early part of the book of Genesis, and Moses 7, which is received about December 1830. So this is after Oliver’s left to go on his mission but before Joseph Smith has really left New York and gone anywhere, Moses 7 has—reads in part—this is verse 62 in the current Pearl of Great Price.

Scott Woodward:
Okay.

Casey Griffiths:
“Righteousness will I send down out of heaven; and truth will I send forth out of the earth, to bear testimony of mine Only Begotten; his resurrection from the dead; yea, and also the resurrection of all men; and righteousness and truth will I cause to sweep the earth as with a flood, to gather out mine elect from the four quarters of the earth, unto a place which I shall prepare, an Holy City, that my people . . . gird up their loins, and be looking forth for the time of my coming; for there shall be my tabernacle, and it shall be called Zion, a New Jerusalem.”

Scott Woodward:
So this is a prophecy of the Lord to Enoch about the latter days, and he explicitly connects New Jerusalem with a tabernacle in the midst of it.

Casey Griffiths:
Yep.

Scott Woodward:
Okay. So, okay, I think you’ve made your case pretty well, Casey. I think that you’ve convinced me that the New Jerusalem was the seed that bore within it the idea or the concept of a temple.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
And that that began to germinate, and with prophecies in the Book of Mormon, layered upon with a prophecy in the book of Moses, now that is starting to become very concrete. Oliver Cowdery’s already headed out west to identify the spot where that New Jerusalem will be established, where that temple will be built, and it’s not even 1831 yet. This is all within the first few months of the church being official.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. The church is less than a year old when all this stuff is happening. It’s founded in April 1830. The Moses 7 prophecy’s given in December, and then a little context here: Oliver Cowdery has way more success on his way to the boundaries than he does when he gets there. On his way—

Scott Woodward:
We should do a series sometime about just missionary work, and just kind of, like, show that—like, the Lamanite mission has got to be first, right? And just, like, kind of show that the success that they had. Not—

Casey Griffiths:
Not what you expect.

Scott Woodward:
—amongst the native Americans, but, yeah, but in Kirtland, you know?

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. The Lamanite mission is a great example of you’re not going to have the success you think you’re going to have. They thought they were going to go to the boundaries of the United States and convert hundreds of thousands of Native Americans. Instead, the biggest success the Lamanite missionaries have is in a little town called Kirtland—

Scott Woodward:
Yeah.

Casey Griffiths:
—that’s on the boundary of Lake Erie. It’s not even halfway to Missouri from where they were leaving. But what happens is one of the Lamanite missionaries, Parley P. Pratt, knows this guy named Sidney Rigdon. Rigdon agrees to let them preach to his congregation. He reads the Book of Mormon. He converts. And then Oliver Cowdery and the missionaries keep going, and Rigdon travels back to New York to meet with Joseph Smith. Sidney Rigdon’s actually the scribe when the Moses 7 prophecy is received, and Sidney Rigdon is there when Doctrine and Covenants 37 is given, which is the first command to gather.

Scott Woodward:
Which comes almost immediately after Moses 7 was received, right? Like, it’s like, Moses 7, the prophecy about the New Jerusalem. Okay, stop. D&C 37 says, okay, now move to Ohio. Go to Kirtland. Go to where there’s a few hundred saints. It’s going to be about 300 in the next few months. In New York there’s only about 100 saints at the time. And so gather to the Ohio. This is a command to the New York Saints to leave, right? But the Lord doesn’t give much context. He doesn’t explain why.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
So church members are thoughtful and ask Joseph about that. Like, why do we need to go? And Joseph says, essentially, I don’t know.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
Let’s inquire of the Lord. And that’s where we get section 38, which is actually, John Whitmer says, received right in front of the entire congregation. Like, Joseph receives the revelation and then shares that with them immediately.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
And tell us why section 38 matters, Casey.

Casey Griffiths:
The command to gather, section 37, is four verses long. Section 38, which is the reason to gather, is 42 verses long. It’s ten times as long. And there’s a lot of stuff in here, but kind of the heart of it is the Lord says, verse 32: “Wherefore, for this cause I gave unto you the commandment that ye should go to the Ohio; [for] there I will give unto you my law; and there you shall be endowed with power from on high.” So the law is received almost immediately. That’s section 42.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah.

Casey Griffiths:
And we just did a whole series on it. It’s the law of consecration, in part, with a bunch of other laws, too, but consecration is the main thing.

Scott Woodward:
Yes.

Casey Griffiths:
But the mysterious phrase is this promise of an endowment, which we bring a whole bunch of cultural baggage to in our time. But did they know what the endowment was in the moment? And how would they have seen the word endowment? Not the same way we see it, correct?

Scott Woodward:
Definitely not. Yeah. They don’t have the same temple context that we have. They had no temple context at all, actually. In fact, the word endowment, that’s not even specifically, like, an LDS word, or even a uniquely religious word for that matter.

Casey Griffiths:
No.

Scott Woodward:
In the 1828 Webster Dictionary at the time, it’s defined as “that which is bestowed or settled on. Property, fund, or revenue permanently appropriated to any object.” So think of, like, the university endowment.

Casey Griffiths:
Right.

Scott Woodward:
The Harvard endowment, it’s like $50 billion, the wealthiest university on earth because of their endowment. And then it goes on and says, “Also, that which is given or bestowed on the person or mind by the creator. Gift of nature. Any quality or faculty bestowed by the creator.” So I could say, Casey, you have been endowed with a quick wit and a wonderful memory. And that would be true.

Casey Griffiths:
Thanks, man.

Scott Woodward:
You betcha. So I think to those early Latter-day Saints, this promise of being endowed with power from on high probably sounded to them like God was offering them some kind of gift of divinely bestowed power.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
They wouldn’t be wrong about that, but at first there was no particular temple association at all. That understanding, of connecting this endowment of power with temple will distill over the next few years as we continue.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. And today endowment is shorthand for going through the temple ceremonies, right?

Scott Woodward:
A specific ritual that we do in the temple, yeah.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. But I want to stress when Joseph Smith goes to Ohio, they don’t know what the endowment is.

Scott Woodward:
No, not at all.

Casey Griffiths:
They keep looking at things and saying, oh, maybe this is the endowment. Like, there’s a big experience on the Isaac Morley farm. They have a meeting of priesthood, and a bunch of people stand up and prophesy, and amazing things happen, and some people at the time say, well, this must be the endowment that the Lord promised, that we would have this massive spiritual outpouring. That’s the gift.

Scott Woodward:
Because it was a gift of divine power.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. And who’s to say they’re wrong? I mean, it was a gift of divine power.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah. That’s an endowment.

Casey Griffiths:
The question is was it the endowment that the Lord had planned, or was it part of the endowment? If you read through the Doctrine and Covenants, this wording shows up as a consistent thread. So section 39, which is given right as they’re preparing to leave New York to gather to Ohio, the Lord says, “I have kept in store a blessing such as is not known among the children of men.”

Scott Woodward:
And that’s actually kind of cool as far as, like, a synonym for endowment.

Casey Griffiths:
Uh-huh.

Scott Woodward:
His synonym is a blessing.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
And the context is “inasmuch as my people shall assemble themselves at the Ohio,” right?

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
Go to Ohio, and I have kept in store a blessing such as is not known among the children of men. Cool synonym for endowment.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. Verse 16 of section 43, this is received after they get to Ohio, the Lord says, “Sanctify yourselves and ye shall be endowed with power.”

Scott Woodward:
Okay.

Casey Griffiths:
So, again, I’m going to give you a gift.

Scott Woodward:
So still not associating it with the temple at all.

Casey Griffiths:
Still not associating it with the temple, but the word endowment continues to show up. It shows up in section 95 in a house that by this point, it’s the Kirtland temple. “I design to endow those whom I have chosen with power from on high.”

Scott Woodward:
Ah, so June of 1833, that’s the first time we explicitly see endowment and the Kirtland temple connected with each other.

Casey Griffiths:
Right. Right.

Scott Woodward:
Nice.

Casey Griffiths:
And then section 105, which is right after Zion’s Camp has gone to Missouri.

Scott Woodward:
So, like, a year later.

Casey Griffiths:
Like, a year later, the Lord actually tells them, okay, the redemption of the city or land of Zion cannot be brought to pass until mine elders are endowed with power from on high. So the endowment eventually comes to be associated with the idea of, you gather, you build the temple, I’ll give you this huge gift that I have in store for that.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah. What was the first temple that the Lord commanded the saints to build?

Casey Griffiths:
The first temple that they’re commanded to build is in Missouri.

Scott Woodward:
Oh, not Kirtland.

Casey Griffiths:
Not Kirtland. That’s the first one we managed to build, but the first one that we are commanded to build is at the heart of the New Jerusalem, at the heart of this city of Zion that the saints are going to build. Right after Joseph Smith gets to Kirtland, he’s only there for a couple weeks and is told the next conference of the church should be held in Missouri. Go to Missouri, and when you get there, await further instructions. This location of the city of Zion will be made known to you. If you turn to section 57, when Joseph Smith gets to Missouri, he arrives there in July of the summer of 1831. He asks two questions. These questions set off section 57. The two questions are, when will the wilderness blossom as the rose?

Scott Woodward:
Mm-hmm.

Casey Griffiths:
That’s question one. When will Zion be built up in her glory, and where will thy temple stand, unto which all nations shall come in the last days? So when Joseph goes to Missouri, and it’s to identify the location of the city of Zion, which is what this revelation does, he has temples on his mind, too.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah.

Casey Griffiths:
He’s saying, hey, where’s the temple going to stand? Because to him, the New Jerusalem is a temple city. There’s got to be a temple. That’s just the way it works. And the Lord tells him, verse 3, “the place which is now called Independence is the center place; and a spot for the temple is lying westward, upon a lot which is not far from the courthouse.” So . . .

Scott Woodward:
Bam. And that’s the temple of the New Jerusalem.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
This is the place that the Book of Mormon had been prophesying about, that Moses 7 was prophesying about, and now they’ve finally got a location.

Casey Griffiths:
They got a location.

Scott Woodward:
Mm-hmm.

Casey Griffiths:
And here’s the interesting thing: the plans we have, and they’re pretty direct, say that it wasn’t just going to be one temple in Zion: it was going to be twenty-four temples.

Scott Woodward:
Twenty-four temples.

Casey Griffiths:
Now, we’ve got to understand that the concept of a temple right here, in 1833, is very, very much in its infancy, so the design of the temples that we have are very close to what the Kirtland Temple is originally going to look like.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah.

Casey Griffiths:
But there’s no baptismal font. There’s no sealing room. There’s no endowment rooms. There’s nothing that we would currently associate with the temple.

Scott Woodward:
Yes.

Casey Griffiths:
And they actually associate these temples with the offices of the church as they exist at that time. There’s three temples for the deacons and three temples for the teachers and three temples for the priests and three temples for the presiding bishopric and three temples for the presidency. And that’s where you get to the number of twenty-four. They really only start building one temple—we know the exact location of this—but if everything had gone according to plan, there would have been a temple complex at the heart of Zion that would have been a kind of administrative center for the church.

Scott Woodward:
Kind of like if you think about Temple Square today, right?

Casey Griffiths:
Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
You’ve got a temple proper, and then you’ve got the conference center. Is that a kind of temple?

Casey Griffiths:
Kind of, yeah.

Scott Woodward:
They would have said so, yeah.

Casey Griffiths:
The way they thought of it, yeah.

Scott Woodward:
Mm-hmm. You’ve got the church office building right there.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
Was that kind of a temple? Yeah, in a way.

Casey Griffiths:
You’ve got the church administration building.

Scott Woodward:
Yes.

Casey Griffiths:
Which is probably the one that’s most in line with what they conceive these temples as being.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah.

Casey Griffiths:
The design of these temples show large congregational spaces, also spaces where there could be offices for church leaders and things like that.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah.

Casey Griffiths:
And it reflects the structure of the churches that exist in 1833.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah.

Casey Griffiths:
I mean, this is a snapshot of that time.

Scott Woodward:
Mm-hmm. If you go to Temple Square today, for instance, there’s a Relief Society building.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. If we built the New Jerusalem, would we have to have a temple for the Relief Society?

Scott Woodward:
Absolutely.

Casey Griffiths:
Or a temple for the young women, because they’re officers of the church, too. They need a space to exist in.

Scott Woodward:
Sunday school, and . . .

Casey Griffiths:
Not Cub Scouts anymore, thank goodness. But—

Scott Woodward:
That temple has been bulldozed in the church. No.

Casey Griffiths:
And I want to stress that the offices function differently today. Deacons are 12-year-olds, 11-year-olds. They could be 11-year-olds. Back then a deacon was an adult man. So it’s not like the temples for the deacons, we’re going to have, you know, an arcade and—

Scott Woodward:
Bounce houses.

Casey Griffiths:
—and stuff like that. This just shows their concept of a temple is continuing to evolve and stretch and grow.

Scott Woodward:
And they’re committed to the depths, right? The revelations themselves are talking about “build unto me an house.” D&C 84 says, “an house.”

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
The revelation about the Kirtland temple is “an house.”

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
And so there is one particular, one specific building that is going to be the place where you would have the most holy type of worshiping.

Casey Griffiths:
Right.

Scott Woodward:
Because in Kirtland the Lord actually wanted another house for the presidency and another house for . . .

Casey Griffiths:
Printing of the scriptures.

Scott Woodward:
Printing place that looked a lot like the Kirtland temple, and—

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
—we’re only able, eventually, to build the Kirtland Temple, but of the three, that’s the one you ought to marshal all your efforts to build. And they did, and the Lord’s promise was fulfilled about the endowment of power.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. And let me mention just really briefly another promise. That promise in section 84, in verse 5, where the Lord says, “this generation shall not . . . pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord,” a lot of people have used that to say Joseph Smith, the false prophet.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah. There’s a false prophecy. There’s not a house built in Missouri, in Independence.

Casey Griffiths:
You guys didn’t build the temple in Missouri. But there’s a couple easy workarounds here.

Scott Woodward:
Okay. Go ahead.

Casey Griffiths:
One would be the Lord said “this generation shall not pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord.” And there were several houses built unto the Lord before that generation passed away. There’s a house in Kirtland. There’s one in Nauvoo. There were people that were alive when this prophecy was given that lived to see temples dedicated in Hawaii and in Canada.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah, but verse 4 says, “beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation.” Isn’t he anchoring that to Independence?

Casey Griffiths:
Eh, could be. I’m just saying verse 5 gives us a little wiggle room because he says, “this generation shall not pass away until an house.” So I think you could interpret it and say it doesn’t necessarily have to be the one in Independence. It just has to be a house of the Lord. But do you have a different workaround that you would use for this?

Scott Woodward:
I do, yes. I think the Lord, when he spoke of this to the saints in Nauvoo, who were still worried about this, after they had lost their land, been kicked out of Missouri, actually expelled by a government order, by order of His Excellency Lilburn W. Boggs, they were worried about this prophecy. How are we going to build the house in this generation if we can’t even go to Missouri? He said it was supposed to be reared on that spot.

Casey Griffiths:
Right.

Scott Woodward:
And the Lord alleviated that concern in Doctrine and Covenants 124, verse 49, where he says, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, that when I give a commandment to any of the sons of men to do a work unto my name, and those sons of men go with all their might and with all they have to perform that work, and cease not their diligence, and their enemies come upon them and hinder them from performing that work, behold, it behooveth me to require that work no more at the hands of those sons of men, but to accept of their offerings.” And then he says, “And the iniquity and transgression of my holy laws and commandments I will visit upon the heads of those who hindered my work,” in Missouri there. He says, “Therefore, for this cause have I accepted the offerings of those whom I commanded to build up a city and a house unto my name, in Jackson county, Missouri, and were hindered by their enemies, saith the Lord your God.” So essentially he’s saying you are exempt from that commandment.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
Your enemies hindered you, so I require that work no more at your hands, but I will visit the punishment of not fulfilling that commandment upon your enemies. You’re exempt. Focus on building a temple here in Nauvoo, which he had just commanded a few verses earlier.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
So that, to me, is a pretty satisfying response to verse 5 of D&C 84. Is this a failed prophecy? Well, it’s a lifted prophecy.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
The Lord lifts it and says, you no longer need to do that. I exempt you from that because your enemies came upon you and hindered you from performing that work. I think that was a great release to a lot of members of the church in Nauvoo, not least of which was Joseph Smith, who was now grateful that they didn’t have to try to figure out some way to surreptitiously build a temple in Missouri.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
How are they going to fulfill that when there’s an extermination order on their heads? And this released them from that obligation.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. So two ways to basically solve the question of that.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah.

Casey Griffiths:
Do we just have to build an house, or the Lord says specifically, I’m releasing you from this command. And it’s either I release you for now, or I release you altogether. You and I disagree on this.

Scott Woodward:
We do disagree.

Casey Griffiths:
I think it’s, I’m releasing you for now, but you’re eventually going to have to do it.

Scott Woodward:
I think he says, I require this no more—

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
—at your hands. So what you would say is, well, somebody’s hands have got to do it, just not that generation.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
And I would say, I think that exempts all hands from that particular work, but—

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
—we shall see.

Casey Griffiths:
We argued about this for hours while we drove around the church history sites in Missouri. And if you want to go watch our video and see us actually arguing in real time, it’s on YouTube. I think the editor of the video favored your side and he made it look like, yeah, I don’t know.

Scott Woodward:
He had good sense about him, I think.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
So . . .

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. I mean, you’re a good guy, Scott, but you’re wrong on this one. At any rate, that’s the temple in Missouri, okay? And that’s the first temple commanded to be built in this dispensation, but it is not the first temple to be built in this dispensation, for obvious reasons. The saints in Missouri face intense persecutions starting in the summer of 1833. By the fall of 1833 they are forcibly evicted from Jackson County, and that’s when the Lord sends Zion’s Camp, and now we’re back to section 105, where the Lord has said, look, Zion cannot be redeemed “until mine elders,” this is verse 11, “are endowed with power from on high.” So even before the fall of Zion, which happens in the summer and autumn of 1833, the Lord has already given a commandment for another house to be built. And this is found in section 88 of the Doctrine and Covenants, which, huge revelation and several revelations combined together to make one big section, but we go to verse 119.

Scott Woodward:
So this is where the Lord commands the building of the Kirtland temple.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
Okay.

Casey Griffiths:
So here’s his wording: “Organize yourselves; prepare every needful thing; and establish a house, even a house of prayer, a house of fasting, a house of faith, a house of learning, a house of glory, a house of order, a house of God.”

Scott Woodward:
There it is.

Casey Griffiths:
So there it is. They’re going to build a temple in Kirtland also. At the same time, they’re trying to build this temple in Missouri, too, and it’s not a race or anything like that, because they don’t really start to super seriously focus on the Kirtland Temple until they know Zion is gone, but they’ve got a couple of things in place here. They’ve got a promise that they’re going to receive an endowment. They’re looking for how that’s going to be fulfilled. They’ve got a commandment to build temples. They’ve got a charge to build the new Jerusalem, and in the way they see it at the heart of every holy city of God is a temple, a house, dedicated to God for that purpose. So like we said, we don’t want to spoil the story, but the first temple to be built is in Kirtland, Ohio still stands. It’s still there. You can go visit it. And that’s where we pick up the next part of the story, correct?

Scott Woodward:
Yeah. And here’s the teaser to think about, dear listener: how does the Kirtland endowment occur if there’s no endowment ceremony in Kirtland yet? What you and I know as the “endowment” ordinance is not developed until Nauvoo. It’s not in Kirtland. And so if the ordinance that we call the endowment is not what they’re doing in Kirtland, then what on earth is the Kirtland endowment? It’s not what you think, but it’s really good. But we’re excited to talk about it next time because remember his promise: his promise was an endowment of power.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
So that’s what we’ll be looking for in Kirtland, surrounding the Kirtland temple, in the Kirtland Temple, what is the gift of power, the blessing of power that the Lord gives the saints in Kirtland, which fulfills that promise? Stay tuned. We’ll talk about it next time.

Casey Griffiths:
Okay. See ya.

Scott Woodward:
Thank you for listening to this episode of Church History Matters. Next week Casey and I dig deeper into the somewhat surprising and unique nature and purposes of the Kirtland endowment and how it paved the way for all the work that would be accomplished in all future temples to come. If you’re enjoying Church History Matters, we’d appreciate it if you could take a moment to subscribe, rate, review, and comment on the podcast. That makes us easier to find. Also, we’d love to hear your suggestions for future series on this podcast. If there’s a church history topic you think would be worth exploring for multiple episodes, send us your idea to podcasts@scripturecentral.org. We promise to consider all suggestions. Today’s episode was produced by Scott Woodward and edited by Nick Galieti and Scott Woodward, with show notes and transcript by Gabe Davis. Church History Matters is a podcast of Scripture Central, a nonprofit which exists to help build enduring faith in Jesus Christ by making Latter-day Saint scripture and church history accessible, comprehensible, and defensible to people everywhere. For more resources to enhance your gospel study, go to scripturecentral.org, where everything is available for free because of the generous donations of people like you. And while we try very hard to be historically and doctrinally accurate in what we say on this podcast, please remember that all views expressed in this and every episode are our views alone and do not necessarily reflect the views of Scripture Central or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Thank you so much for being a part of this with us.