Scott Woodward:
Hello, Casey.

Casey Griffiths:
Hello, Scott. Here we are once again.

Scott Woodward:
Here we are diving into section 18 of the Doctrine and Covenants. Yes. Casey, we got all day long on this, just one section. This feels like we’re being spoiled.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah, I know. In our preliminary conversation, we were at first going, one section, we’re going to get this done. Then we started getting into it and we kind of arrived back at, oh, I don’t know if we can get this done.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah. How long is this going to take?

Casey Griffiths:
This is juicy stuff. It’s only, well, 47 verses, but there’s a lot going on here historically that we need to address as well.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah, some really, really foundational stuff here that’s going to set up the Church and its trajectory for the future here. We’re talking about the calling of the Quorum of the 12 Apostles. We’re talking about a blueprint for the Church of Jesus Christ and other stuff. We got some controversies today about the restoration of the Melchizedek Priesthood and other things. And so, man, lots to talk about. Let’s get into it.

Casey Griffiths:
I’ll add, too, that if our last episode set up the Three Witnesses and how important they are. This is the continuing story. Section 18 deals with Oliver Cowdery and David Whitmer and what their role is going to be in the Church. Then section 19, which we’ll do next week, is the redemption of Martin Harris, where Martin Harris is still going through the repentance process for what happened with the lost manuscript, and some amazing things are taught to him. In the story where we’re centering this, this is still the saga of the Three Witnesses and what God is going to have them do when it comes to the organization of the Church.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah, excellent. So drop us into the backstory here, Casey, of Doctrine and Covenants 18.

Casey Griffiths:
Okay, so Doctrine and Covenants 18 is given that fateful summer of 1829. If you’ll remember, Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery start translating in April 1829 down in Harmony, Pennsylvania, in Emma Smith’s hometown. But after about two months, persecution started to rear its ugly head there, and they needed to find another place where they could complete the translation, and Oliver reaches out to the Whitmers, these friends of his. They move up to Fayette, New York, and that’s where they complete the last month of translation. That’s why almost all the Witnesses of the Book of Mormon, or either members of the Smith family or members of the Whitmer family. This was probably given around the time that the Witnesses had their experience. So we’re dating it to June 1829 through Joseph Smith, and it concerns, like I said, two of the Three Witnesses, Oliver Cowdery and David Whitmer. And it even points us forward to an event that’s not going to take place for another six years. That’s the calling of the original Quorum of the 12 Apostles that are going to be so instrumental in the setup of the church. So that’s the big picture backstory. Let’s get into specifics here.

Casey Griffiths:
So this one could be traced back to March 1829. And Lord tells Joseph Smith that the beginning of the rising up and coming forth of my church was going to occur soon. That’s Doctrine and Covenants 5:14. This is the very first mention of a church in Joseph’s revelations, and it might be the first moment it occurred to Joseph that his translation work with the Book of Mormon would lead to the establishment of a church.

Scott Woodward:
That’s an interesting thought, right?

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
Maybe Joseph didn’t fully connect that this was going to lead to a church. He initially seems to have felt like his role, his job, was to get the Book of Mormon out there. But this idea that this might lead to a church is starting to slowly coalesce in his mind.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah, and that’s an interesting little avenue to explore. Some historians have suggested that, yeah, Joseph Smith thought I’m going to bring forth the Book of Mormon and put it out there to the world, and then I’m going to be a farmer. I’m going to lead a normal life. But the Lord is hinting at bigger things, and I think he may have had an inkling because in some accounts of the First Vision, he says that I was going to play a role in bringing forth the Kingdom of God. But he may have thought his role was to bring forth the Book of Mormon, and then we’re off to the races. But now the Lord is telling him, no, there’s going to be a church. In fact, two months later, in May 1829, the Lord tells Joseph Smith again that a church is going to be established. That’s in Doctrine and Covenants 10:53-55. So it seems likely, and this is one of the controversies we’re going to deal with, that around the latter part of May, Peter, James, and John appear and ordain Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery to the office of apostle. They give them the apostolic keys. They confer upon them the keys of God’s Kingdom on Earth for this dispensation, which again, all this is relevant to the coming forth of the Church. We’re going to talk about the timing. Last time we talked about the restoration of the Aaronic Priesthood, which is easy. We have the date, we have the location, we have the people involved. The appearance of Peter, James, and John is more complex.

Scott Woodward:
Difficult to pin down the exact dates, but we’re going to give it a shot today.

Casey Griffiths:
We’re thinking that the appearance of Peter, James, and John happens sometime around when this revelation is being received, within a couple of weeks. There’s good reasons for that, to suggest that it’s the latter part of May. That’s when Peter, James, and John appear, though there’s not total uniformity as to when this happened, and we’ll introduce you into some of the complexity there. So, it’s the following month in June 1829. They get to the Whitmer Farm, they finish translating the Book of Mormon, They’re living with the Whitmer family, and they receive another important communication about the Melchizedek Priesthood. This one is the voice of God in the chamber of Father Whitmer. That’s the way Joseph Smith describes it in Section 128 of the Doctrine and Covenants. And that’s where God gives them further details concerning the impending organization of the church, including instructions about ordaining each other to the office of elder, administering the sacrament, conferring the Holy Ghost upon people after they’ve been baptized. A lot of these essential instructions that are eventually going to show up in Section 20 of the Doctrine and Covenants, which is given to help them organize the Church. So Joseph Smith, concerning these instructions, says the following.

Casey Griffiths:
He says, “We were commanded to defer this our ordination until such times as it should be practicable to have our brethren, who had been and who should be baptized, assembled together when we must have their sanction to our thus proceeding to ordain each other and have them decide by vote whether they were willing to accept us as spiritual teachers or not.” So this is introducing another principle, that’s Common Consent in the Church, where before a person is ordained to priesthood office, we usually ask for a sustaining vote, which has become standard practice in the Church today.

Scott Woodward:
So they receive instruction from God in his voice authorizing Joseph and Oliver to ordain each other elders, administer the sacrament, and confer the Holy Ghost upon people who’ve been previously baptized, but to not do it yet until you can have a body of them together who can sustain you in that. Is that right?

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. And this is, like we said, June of 1829. When is this body of believers going to get together? And when are they going to formally organize a church? Probably later than they thought it would be. It’s April 6, 1830, which is the day the Church is organized. So almost a full year after this revelation is given. But in the meantime, there’s a lot going on. They’ve got to get the Book of Mormon to the printer. They’ve got to convince a printer to print the Book of Mormon. They want to have copies of the Book of Mormon. It seems like the printing process of the Book of Mormon is the reason why it’s so long before they actually carry out this action. But all of this is just pointing us towards the fact that in June of 1829, the idea of establishing a church was on the mind of everybody involved in the coming forth of the Book of Mormon. But the two people we’re talking about here are Oliver Cowdery, this is Joseph’s primary scribe, close associate, and co-witness of the visitation of angels. Oliver is the one that’s there when John the Baptist appears.

Casey Griffiths:
Oliver is there when Peter, James, and John appeared, Joseph and Oliver. And then later on in the Kirtland Temple, Oliver is going to be the guy that’s there when Moses, Elias, and Elijah appear. But at this stage, they don’t know how they’re supposed to organize the Church or what it’s supposed to do. And so another thing that’s happening is Joseph has directed Oliver to prepare a sort of founding document which would outline the basic beliefs and the basic practices of the Church, similar to what other churches had during that time, a constitution that would explain, here’s what sets us apart, here’s what makes us unique, here’s what we do, here’s what we believe. And this is eventually going to be Doctrine and Covenants 20, which they refer to as the Articles and Covenants of the Church. So we’re leading up to that. And Joseph Smith basically directs Oliver to put this together.

Scott Woodward:
So they have this idea of like, we’ve got to start a Church.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
They don’t know how. Joseph is looking around left and right and saying, well, other churches seem to have a blueprint, like a charter of some kind that they outline their basic beliefs and structures. So Oliver, will you do that? Will you put that together for us? Yeah. And how does Oliver feel about that?

Casey Griffiths:
I mean, it does say how much trust Joseph Smith had in Oliver. Oliver is a smart guy. He’s more educated than Joseph. It speaks to Joseph’s humility, too, that he’s, he’s assigning this. He’s delegating. He’s a good leader, I guess you’d say. But that would be pretty overwhelming, right? I come to you and say, “Hey, can you put together a document that describes our beliefs, what makes us unique, our practices, and all that?” I would feel overwhelmed, but apparently Oliver felt overwhelmed. Let’s put things in context here. Oliver is 22 years old, and he’s very well-educated. He’s a smart guy. That’s a lot to ask a 22-year-old. And I know, I teach 22-year-olds. Asking them to put together something like Doctrine and Covenants 20 would be a tall order, as wonderful as they are. It’s understandable that Oliver approaches Joseph Smith and says, “Hey, could we ask the Lord for guidance on this?” This is a smart thing for him to do. And so, in the presence of Oliver and David Whitmer, Joseph does exactly that. He approaches the Lord for direction on what they should put into this founding document, specifically, as well as, this is the way he describes it in his 1838 history, instructions relative to the building up of the Church of Christ that the Lord saw fit to offer them.

Casey Griffiths:
They ask the Lord, “Hey, how do we go down this road? What do we need to do?” And that’s going to lead us eventually to the organization of the Church and Doctrine and Covenants 20, which some people have called the Constitution of the Church, because that’s basically what it is. It’s the basic operating instructions, which the contemporary Saints refer to as the Articles and Covenants of the Church. And I mean, the way I introduce Section 20 to my class is to say it’s the Doctrine and Covenants before we had a Doctrine and Covenants.

Scott Woodward:
So Section 18 is the Lord’s answer to Oliver’s question, “Can I get a little help here on creating a charter, a blueprint, a constitution for the Church?” And Joseph also seems to throw in there in the question, “Any other instruction do you have, Lord, relative to building up the Church of Christ? We would appreciate that.” That seems to set up Section 18.

Casey Griffiths:
A lot of stuff here, but again, now we’re not just bringing forth this book. We’re going to create a new church. We’re going to bring forth a new religion, which sometimes we just assume this all showed up prepackaged, wrapped up with a nice little bow, when these sections do kind of show the line-upon-line process that leads them to… I mean, even the idea that they were going to found a church was sort of novel to them, and the Lord is leading them line-upon-line towards that idea.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah. There’s a 23-year-old prophet and a 22-year-old scribe, and how are we supposed to do this Lord? And here we go. Section 18 is the answer.

Casey Griffiths:
Here we go. Yeah. So that’s the context.

Scott Woodward:
Let’s Let me dive into the content here. The Lord begins this revelation by directly addressing Oliver Cowdery’s concern about writing this founding document by saying, verse one, quote, “Now, behold, because of the thing which you, my servant Oliver Cowdery, have desired to know of me, I give unto you these words. Behold, I have manifested unto you by my Spirit in many instances that the things which you have written are true.” What’s he talking about here? Remember, Oliver Cowdery has just been personally scribing the entirety of the Book of Mormon as we have it today, almost single-handedly. The Lord is saying, you have a really good question about how to write a founding document about this new Church. Now, I have manifested many times to you, Oliver, that the things that you have been writing from the Book of Mormon are true. Then he says this, “Wherefore you know that they are true. And if you know that they…” the things you’ve been writing in the Book of Mormon pages, “…Are true, behold, I give unto you a commandment that you rely upon the things which are written.” In other words, Oliver need look no further than the freshly inked pages of the Book of Mormon manuscript themselves for rich material on the core doctrine, the core structure, and the core practices of the Lord’s Church.

Scott Woodward:
The Lord continues, “For in them are all things written concerning the foundation of my church, my gospel, and my rock.” The Lord says, “Wherefore, if you shall build up my church, upon the foundation of my gospel and my rock, the gates of hell shall not prevail against you.” Here you go. Right at the shoot, the Lord is giving Oliver the way to write the blueprint that he seeks to write as the foundation of the Church. Oliver does take this counsel to heart, he will pour over the loose pages of the Book of Mormon Manuscript and draw therefrom abundant material, which he is either going to quote directly or closely paraphrase in his founding document, which he will call the Articles of the Church of Christ. In fact, more than half of Oliver’s finished document will consist of direct quotations from the Book of Mormon, drawn primarily actually from Jesus’s teachings in 3 Nephi and Moroni’s descriptions of Church practices in the Book of Mormon. If you think about it, when Jesus comes down in 3 Nephi, that’s where he explains about his church, the proper mode of baptism. He introduces the sacrament. We’re going to get Jesus laying things out in 3 Nephi.

Scott Woodward:
Then at the very end of the Book of Mormon, kind of in the Book of Mormon bonus material, you have Moroni outlining like the Sacrament prayers, how to ordain priests, how to baptize, et cetera. From that material, Oliver Cowdery is going to be drawing and putting that right into his founding document. Then what’s kind of cool is the rest of the material in this founding document that Oliver writes is going to come, in large measure, straight from this revelation that we’re about to continue on to read. And so Section 18 itself provides some of the blueprint for that. So very, very cool.

Casey Griffiths:
Very, very cool. And later on, I think it’s Section 68, right? They’re condemned for not using the Book of Mormon enough. But it is really fair to say that at this early stage, they are using the Book of Mormon a lot. It speaks to their sincerity and the importance of the Book of Mormon. First of all, they’re just doing what the Lord told them to do. But I was just reading through Section 20, and yeah, pretty much everything in there is taken from the teachings in the Book of Mormon, right down to the Sacrament prayers, to the description of how to baptize. They are using this, and that does speak to their sincerity of what they’re doing.

Scott Woodward:
It’s hard to overstate the significance of the Book of Mormon in terms of shaping the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Sometimes we like to say that this Church is the restoration of the New Testament Church, you know. But honestly, that’s not quite the full story. As we could see right here, when the Lord wanted to establish the foundational doctrines and ordinances and structure and practices of his Latter-day Church, he didn’t tell Oliver Cowdery to go to the New Testament. He said, go to the teachings of the Book of Mormon that you’ve been describing. Go get it there. Now, that said, the church will not be exclusively based on the Book of Mormon. For instance, to restore the foundational keys of authority, the Lord is going to send messengers from the New Testament. We’re going to get John the Baptist. Well, we already got John the Baptist on May 15th, 1829. That’s already happened. We’re going to get Peter, James, and John, which we’re going to argue in just a minute, we think that has already happened by this point. Now we’ve got some New Testament elements. Then in the years to come, like in 1836, the Lord is going to add some key elements from the Old Testament.

Scott Woodward:
We’re going to get, for instance, keys from Moses, Elias, and Elijah. Then it’s not just going to be ancient stuff either. All along the way, the Prophet Joseph is authorized to incorporate even some modern elements into the church, such as Methodist style general conferences, Protestant hymns, Masonic ritual forms. He’s going to synthesize all of these together into one syncretic whole. So, at the end of what the Church is going to eventually look like, we’re going to have Book of Mormon, New Testament, Old Testament, and modern elements all kind of perfectly fit together. But what we’re trying to emphasize right now is it was the Book of Mormon first. The Book of Mormon was the foundational piece to all of this. When it comes to doctrine, when it comes to practice, when it comes to structure, this is a Book of Mormon-based church, and that’s pretty significant.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah, and you made me think while you were talking here of Section 42, which is sort of the next foundational document after Section 20. It’s called the Law of the Church. It’s where the Law of Consecration is. But one overlooked part is verse 12. “And again, the elders, priests and teachers of this church shall teach the principles of my gospel, which are found in the Bible and the Book of Mormon, in which is the fulness of the gospel.” So there’s been various times, you know, President Benson, in the ’80s, condemned the Church for not using the Book of Mormon. That came after a period of assimilation when we were trying to be like everybody else. But it does seem like the Lord wants us to emphasize the distinctive characteristics of the church. And one of them is we use the Bible and the Book of Mormon, and the Book of Mormon contains the fulness of the gospel.

Scott Woodward:
That’s a great point. And they’re together. They don’t compete with us. They don’t compete. They just perfectly complete one another. Where there is some ambiguity in the New Testament, for instance, on how to do the Lord’s Sacrament, the Lord’s Supper, what’s the right way to administer the bread and the cup. And the Book of Mormon nails it. It just tells you, what word should we say when we baptize people? The New Testament is ambiguous. The Book of Mormon nails it. It’s just clear it says, Say it like this. Jesus explains it in 3 Nephi 11. Say it like this. Go to the water and say these words. How do we ordain priests? How do we ordain you know… Book of Mormon just explicitly explains it. That’s why we’re relying on the Book of Mormon here. But as the New Testament adds more clarity than the Book of Mormon, then we’re grabbing from that. It’s not like one is like, ideologically, we prefer one over the other. It’s just like we’re looking for the truth and we’re looking for what the Lord wants. Obviously, Section 18 is showing us why it started with the Book of Mormon, because the Lord told Oliver, Start there, look there. That’s where the rock is. That’s where my foundation is. That’s where my gospel is really clearly articulated, and you’re going to go right.

Casey Griffiths:
Let me add, the Book of Mormon is underestimated for how much it affects the structure and function of the Church. I remember I was at a John Whitmer Historical Association Conference once, and that’s where Community of Christ and our Church meet together. And these two guys from Community of Christ were praising these books published in the 1970s, and their argument was, well, there’s not very much ecclesiology in the New Testament. Ecclesiology is just a $10 word for instructions on how to run the Church. They were like, because there’s no ecclesiology, we needed these books that were written by our curriculum team to help us know what to do. And I remember sitting in the meeting and raising my hand and saying, hey, guys, there’s tons of ecclesiology in the Book of Mormon. There’s a lot of stuff that could help. They sort of just brushed me off like, seriously, the Book of Mormon. And it was one of the first times that I realized, hey, one big difference between the two faiths is the role the Book of Mormon has played in setting up the structure and operations of the Church. It’s just very… That’s why our churches look very different is because we followed the Book of Mormon.

Casey Griffiths:
I’m not going to say that they don’t believe in the Book of Mormon. I know many people from Community of Christ do, but these two scholars from Community of Christ looked at me like I was from Mars when I brought up the ecclesiology that was in the Book of Mormon.

Scott Woodward:
Well, right here in verses one through five, we see how the Lord feels about that. This is capturing a key moment in the early development of the Lord’s Latter-day Church, which will ultimately come to embody an inspired multi-dispensational fusion of practices, doctrine, and authority. But it starts first with the Book of Mormon. Okay, so let’s move to verse 6. Is that okay?

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
Starting in verse 6, the Lord describes the fundamental need for and the work of his Church. We’re going to establish a church. What does it do? What’s it for? He says this, “Behold, the world is ripening in iniquity; and it must needs be that the children of men are stirred up unto repentance.” Then he names two basic subgroups of the human family, “both the Gentiles and also the house of Israel.” Now, there was a bygone ancient day when the Lord largely focused his efforts only on calling the house of Israel to repentance, but that is not this day. That all changed in the era of the New Covenant or the New Testament. That’s when the Lord now commands all men everywhere to repent, Jews, Gentiles, everybody. And the recently baptized Oliver Cowdery and David Whitmer, the Lord says here, were to help the Lord get this word out. To underscore this point, the Lord compares Oliver and David to, “Paul mine apostle, for you are called,” he said, “even with that same calling with which he was called.” I recall that Paul was the first person ever explicitly called to preach to both the Gentiles and the children of Israel, both subgroups of the human family that were mentioned here in verse 6.

Scott Woodward:
So, Oliver and David are being commissioned with that same task, not just to preach to the house of Israel, but to Gentiles and Israel, everybody. The Lord then tenderly explains in the following verses what they are to remember when calling people to repentance. And I cannot overstate how much I love these verses. Here’s what he says. Let’s go verse 10. “Remember, the worth of souls is great in the sight of God.” To quantify exactly what that worth is, the Lord explains in verse 11. I love this. “For behold, the Lord your Redeemer suffered death in the flesh; wherefore he suffered the pain of all men, that all men might repent and come unto him. And he hath risen again from the dead, that he might bring all men unto him on conditions of repentance.” Here the Lord is describing something of what I’d call a sacred equation. So if the worth of each soul is directly proportional to the price paid to redeem it, then, Casey, the worth of every single soul was openly declared at Calvary upon Jesus’s death to be infinite. I think that’s powerful. Jesus’s infinite sacrifice announced our infinite worth. And His death and resurrection opened the way for everyone to repent and come unto him, he’s saying here.

Scott Woodward:
So no wonder, he says in the next verse, “How great is his joy in the soul that repenteth!” “Wherefore,” he says to Oliver and David, “you are called to cry repentance unto this people. And if it so be that you should labor all your days in crying repentance unto this people and bring, save it be one soul unto me, how great shall be your joy with him in the kingdom of my Father!” And thus, of course, how much greater will be your joy if you should bring many souls unto me? He says. I just love this, Casey, that when the Lord is saying, Cry repentance unto all Gentiles and house of Israel, he’s not saying to furrow your brow and to tell people how awful they are and to threaten them with hellfire and damnation. What he’s saying is, When you are called to share the message of repentance, will you just keep this in mind? Will you keep in mind that the people that you’re talking to have souls of infinite worth that I paid for with my blood, that they are infinitely valuable to me, and so let that shape the way that you deliver that message, will you? I just think that’s so powerful.

Casey Griffiths:
Really powerful. And if I may, I feel a little guilty like I was going after Community of Christ earlier. The verse that we all agree on, right, especially, you know, people in other churches, I think maybe the best introduction to the way that we see the world is that verse 10. “Remember, the worth of souls is great in the sight of God.” That’s the starting point, right? Just like you said, the worth is compared to why the Savior suffered and what He did for us. He did it because of the worth of souls. If we have that firmly ingrained in our minds and hearts, we do see people and treat people a lot differently than if we didn’t.

Scott Woodward:
Let that perspective inform your method in inviting people to repent. That’s so cool.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah, and it’s so cool that these are the first instructions a person that’s called as an apostle are given. He says, You’re given the same calling as Paul. Here’s what I need you to know. One, the worth of souls is great in the sight of God. Two, they’re worth so much that your Lord and your Redeemer suffered death to save them.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah. We could call this the apostolic perspective.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
If you’re going to be one that represents me and is sent out to declare repentance, then I would like you to have this perspective, please. Of course, that applies to anyone who ever dare invite someone to repent. This ought to inform all of us: parents, every teacher in the Church. I mean, the original audience here is Oliver and David, but, wow, the universal applicability of this is awesome. Anytime we want to call somebody out, it’s good to check our motive, to say, who am I concerned about here, right? Am I concerned about how they wronged me or am I concerned about the infinite worth of their soul? Maybe that will change the tenor of the relationship and the way, the method, the approach in trying to reconcile and invite people to change. Okay, now the Lord explains in the next verses, verses 17 through 22, everything they’ll need to know to be able to help people repent and come unto Christ. He’s not done explaining how to do this. First, he says, “You have my gospel before you, and my rock, and my salvation.” This is likely a reference to the contents of the Book of Mormon, if we see back in verses 4 and 5, the Book of Mormon contains my gospel, my rock, my salvation. So you’ve got that. You’ve got the Book of Mormon and what it contains. Second, He says, You are to ask the Father for the guidance of the Holy Ghost in this work. Third, he says, They are to remember that, quote, “if you have not faith, hope, and charity, you can do nothing.” In other words, again, trying to call people to repentance without faith, hope, and charity is ineffective. It is futile. Both the message and the method matter. The message is to repent, yes, but the method needs to be clothed and bathed in faith, hope, and charity. If you have the right message, but you go about it in the wrong way, the Lord’s saying here, it’s going to be futile. You must bathe it in these three things. For instance, he goes on to say, You are to, quote, “contend against no church.” Don’t be bashing with other churches. Except, he says, of course, the church of the devil. That’s okay.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah, it’s okay. It’s okay to fight the devil.

Scott Woodward:
Fight the devil. Fight the devil. Contend. Yes. But, he says, you are not to attack and fight with other Christian churches. How often do we get that one wrong amongst ourselves as Christians, right?

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
He says, rather, here’s what you are to do. You are to take upon yourselves the name of Christ, and with faith, hope, and charity, simply speak the truth in soberness. Then, he says, quote, “As many as repent and are baptized in my name… and endure to the end, shall be saved.” This is how people are brought to Christ and take upon themselves his name. And all mankind, he says, all mankind must take upon themselves the name of Christ in order to be saved in the kingdom of my Father. The message is repent. The method is faith, hope, and charity. The reason for that is so that people can take upon themselves the name of Christ and be able to come and be with him in his Father’s kingdom. Anything you want to say about that before we move on?

Casey Griffiths:
I want to circle back to that “contend against no church.” We all… Maybe most of us that served missions ran into that idea of Bible-bashing or criticizing another church. I served in the South, and man, in one area we were in, every door that was opened, it felt like somebody was dropping an anti-Mormon argument. This member gave me this book called One Minute Answers to Anti-Mormon Questions and I remember I read it all, like in one night. And the next day when we went out tracting, I was loaded for bear. And the first person that opened the door, you know, said something, and I laid into him and I wiped him off the floor, you know? I just, next two or three doors, boom, boom, boom. Finally, because I was like a two-month missionary at this point, my senior companion turned to me and said, Hey, at the next door, just don’t talk. And I remember going, But we’re killing them here. And he goes, Yeah, but you’re not converting them. What you’re doing is not helpful. And I would say that I was winning a lot of arguments because I knew the exact verbal traps to lure them into and then drop the hammer. But the Lord really is giving good counsel here when he says, The job isn’t to contend with other churches. The job is to demonstrate charity, to show love, and to teach the truth. And yeah, maybe you’re called upon to defend the truth from time to time, but that never takes the place of charity and love when it comes to converting people to the gospel.

Scott Woodward:
You remember back in Section 10 of the Doctrine and Covenants where the Lord said, There’s a lot of people of “my church.” Anyone who repents and comes unto me is my church. I love those people. So yeah, verse 20 is worth just pausing for a minute. “Contend against no church.”

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
Except the church of the devil. Let’s not call out the Baptists. Let’s not call out the Catholics. Let’s not bash with evangelicals. That’s the wrong approach here. With faith, hope, and charity, let’s invite everyone to come into Jesus and take upon themselves his name. That’s it.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
He wants to rest with them in his Father’s kingdom.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah, it’s so much more effective. And I’m offering this as my apologies to the people of South Florida for the way I acted. I was young, and I didn’t know what I was doing.

Scott Woodward:
May your conscience be clean, and may you from this moment forward, Casey Griffiths…

Casey Griffiths:
Thank you, Scott.

Scott Woodward:
Apply the principles of Section 18.

Casey Griffiths:
I feel so much better. I got this off my chest.

Scott Woodward:
All right, let’s keep going. Verses 26 to 32. Now, ramp things up. This is where the Lord announces that there are 12 others who are going to be “called to declare my gospel, as did the apostle Paul to both Gentile and Jew.” He says, “They are called the 12 disciples.” Isn’t that interesting? He calls them the “disciples.” That’s a Book of Mormon phrase, right? Isn’t it? The 12 disciples. And these will be patterned after the 12 in 3 Nephi in the Book of Mormon. And he says, These are going to be men who, quote, “desire to take upon them my name with full purpose of heart.” Their sacred role is going to mirror the role of the 12 disciples from the Book of Mormon, the ones who are called to preach Christ’s gospel, to baptize in his name, and to ordain priests and teachers. Then in verse 31 through 36, the Lord speaks directly to those future 12 who will be called. It’s like the camera kind of shifts, and he’s kind of looking directly at the 12 Apostles of the future, the 12 disciples that will be called. We know, like you mentioned, it’s not going to be for six more years.

Scott Woodward:
We’re not going to have a Quorum of the 12 until 1835. Valentine’s Day, 1835. And so these words will actually be read to the 12 when they’re called 6 years hence. Here’s what the Lord says. First of all, he comforts them to know that, in their feelings of inadequacy, his grace is sufficient for them. Yet, he says, “you must walk uprightly before me and sin not.” He says, they are to ordain priests and teachers and declare his gospel. He assures them that these words are from him and not from man. “Wherefore, he says, quote, “you shall testify they are of me.” It was his spirit, after all, that inspired these words, and it’s by his power they can read them to one another, he says. So in that sense, they can actually testify that they have heard his voice and know his words. Then verse 37, 39, the Lord then directs his words again back to Oliver and David, giving them a charge to search out these 12 apostles, these disciples. They will recognize them, the Lord says, “by their desires and their works.” When they find them, they are to show the 12 verses 31 through 36, we just highlighted.

Scott Woodward:
And it seems verse 40 through 47 as well, in which the Lord seems, again, to be addressing the future 12 Apostles. And so the 12 are to preach to the world saying, quote, “You must repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ; for all men must repent and be baptized,” and women and children old enough to be accountable as well. They are to keep God’s “commandments in all things. And by your hands,” the Lord assures the 12, “I will work a marvelous work among the children of men, unto the convincing of many of their sins, so that they may come unto repentance, and thereby be enabled to come unto the kingdom of my Father.” Then the Lord concludes this section by soberly informing them that because they will be given blessings above all things, speaking of the 12, he will hold them especially accountable. “If you keep not my commandments,” he warns, “you cannot be saved in the kingdom of my Father.” These are the words of their Lord God and redeemer, spoken by the power of the Spirit, he says. Section 18, Casey, this plays a big role in getting our first quorum of the 12 Apostles. We don’t know exactly when Oliver and David began their search for the 12 disciples, according to the Lord’s instructions here.

Scott Woodward:
But we do know that about five and a half years later, February 1835, when the first apostles are called, Oliver Cowdery states at that meeting, he says that this revelation, Section 18, given way back in June 1829, he said, he said of this, quote, “Our minds have been on a constant stretch to find who these 12 were ever since that revelation.” So five and a half years, he says, my mind has been stretched and searching for you, which is cool. Do you want to say anything about that meeting of the 14th of February, 1835, when the apostles are actually called?

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah, there is a charge to the 12 that Oliver Cowdery gives. My understanding is it’s still read when a new member of the 12 is chosen and given to them. But it’s something that Oliver Cowdery writes, and it’s very, very well-written and very eloquent. But in a larger sense, I’ve always thought of Doctrine and Covenants 18 is the charge to the 12, you know. These basic instructions, first thing, know that the worth of souls is great. That’s why Jesus died, and then sends them out to go and do their thing. So Oliver Cowdery and David Whitmer and Martin Harris are going to search out, find these 12 Apostles, and then give them the charge, which Oliver does specifically. That starts right here. And I’m okay with the idea that it was six years later that this happened, because just like Oliver said, they needed a little time to kind of get to know who the 12 were going to be and where they were coming from. And I mean, a huge influence on this also is Zion’s Camp, where a lot of the men in the Church go on this 800-mile journey with Joseph Smith, and he gets an opportunity to know them really well.

Casey Griffiths:
So, yeah, all things in good time. But it’s just kind of neat that these seeds are being planted, you know, almost a full year before the Church is restored.

Scott Woodward:
Do you know when Martin Harris got added to this group? Because Section 18 is only to Oliver and David. But on the 14th of February, 1835, Joseph comes to Oliver, David, and Martin and says, It’s time, guys. It’s time to pray and choose the 12, as Section 18 said to do. Do you know when Martin gets added to the mix?

Casey Griffiths:
I don’t. I don’t. I’m just spitballing here, but I would guess that if two of the Three Witnesses were asked to do this, and Martin wasn’t, that there might be some bruised egos there or anything. And he did a fine job, you know.

Scott Woodward:
He did great.

Casey Griffiths:
The original is a great group of people. But no, yeah, I don’t know when Martin was added to that, to that elite list right there.

Scott Woodward:
And it’s so interesting that the Lord basically allows the Three Witnesses of the Book of Mormon to choose the special witnesses of the name of Christ in all the world. The minutes of that meeting in 1835, February, says that Oliver, David, and Martin, quote, “United in prayer, after which they were then blessed by the laying out of the hands of the First Presidency. And then, according to a former commandment,” it says, which is Doctrine and Covenants 18, “they proceeded to make choice of the 12.” That’s it. So the Three Witnesses set apart by the First Presidency to do this, then go and select the 12 Apostles. So pretty incredible. Obviously, that’s going to have a major impact on the future of the Church, which men get chosen, what order they’re chosen, all of that is going to play a role in shaping the future of the Church.

Casey Griffiths:
And also, you know, the role that the Quorum of the 12 has played in the history of the Church. You get the feeling in some of the early documents that the Quorum of the 12 was just going to be sort of a traveling high council. They would play the same role that a stake high council plays, just in areas where there were no stakes. But because of the quality of the people that they chose, and I mean, this early quorum has guys like David Patten and William Young and Heber C. Kimball and Parley P. Pratt and Orson Pratt and just names that become huge in the history of the Church. A couple other names that don’t. It’s interesting that revelations like Section 18 are already pointing us towards the Quorum of the 12 playing a much bigger role than even the early members of the Church may have realized they were going to play. When we look at succession and who becomes President of the Church after Joseph Smith, it’s hard to underestimate the importance of the Quorum of the 12.

Scott Woodward:
All right, should we talk about some controversies?

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah, let’s do some controversies. Okay, so where to begin? Where to begin?

Scott Woodward:
Where to begin? Maybe briefly, we should talk about the controversy of Phineas Young, shall we?

Casey Griffiths:
Let’s talk about that. And that one we can do fairly quickly, and I’ll point you back. We did a series on succession that, man, I think is our longest series, and it had to be told to stop, like we didn’t want to stop. So many interesting things happened. But in 1835, for instance, the Three Witnesses are choosing the original Quorum of the 12 Apostles. One of the names that they put forward was Phineas Young, who is the older brother of Brigham Young. And the Three Witnesses felt really strongly that Phineas should be a member of the Quorum of the 12. However, apparently, Joseph Smith approached them and asked if William Smith, his brother, could serve instead of Phineas Young. We talked about William Smith a couple of weeks ago with Kyle Walker. William Smith was a brilliant preacher, a good leader, but he was a little unstable.

Scott Woodward:
A little bit of a hothead.

Casey Griffiths:
He was a hothead. He was kind of unsteady. He had some issues. It’s tempting to just say, What if, because if Phineas Young had been placed in the Quorum of the 12, he would have been the President because they went in seniority by age. That means that not Brigham Young, but Phineas Young probably would have been the successor to Joseph Smith. And the name Phineas Young would be known by a lot more people than it is today. Now, that’s not to say Phineas didn’t play a big role. He played a big role in, for instance, convincing Oliver Cowdery to come back into the Church. He’s Oliver Cowdery’s brother-in-law. And in a number of other situations, Phineas becomes a 70 and does great things. But that’s one of those things, too, that we found out, was that the question of succession and seniority and everything like that kind of work themselves out over time and weren’t set in stone. So that’s one.

Scott Woodward:
The controversy here is what? That the Three Witnesses were chosen to choose the 12. And when they came back with the 12, Joseph asked if Phineas Young could be a little sidelined in preference for his brother William Smith. And Kyle Walker told us that Joseph said that he believed this was essential for William Smith’s salvation, that he be placed in the Quorum of the 12. And so, I mean, on the one hand, you know, let the 12 do their job, right? I mean, that’s where the controversy is. On the other hand, it’s like, well, they are acting under the direction of the First Presidency. So of course, the President of the Church has the final prerogative and say to be able to select the Quorum of the 12. But that is an interesting little wrinkle in Church history here.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah, it’s an interesting what if. And again, I’m not saying that Joseph Smith acted inappropriately.

Scott Woodward:
Right. He’s the President. He could do it.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. The Three Witnesses would act under the direction of the President of the Church and in collaboration with him. But it’s just a little tempting to say, what if? What if Phineas Young had become the President of the 12?

Scott Woodward:
You’d be teaching at PYU right now.

Casey Griffiths:
I would be. That’s right. Yeah, it would be PYU, which I’m glad things worked out the way. I’m just saying things worked out the way that they were supposed to. But A, what if?

Scott Woodward:
That’s kind of a minor controversy. Let’s talk about a bigger controversy, which is the restoration of the Melchizedek Priesthood.

Casey Griffiths:
That’s a good one. That’s a really good one because this section introduces the term apostle. In fact, one of the controversies we toyed with dealing with was, Are Oliver Cowdery and David Whitmer apostles? The Lord here seems to think that they are. He says you were given the same calling as Paul. And some people have argued this by saying, well, maybe they were small, lowercase A, apostles. Apostle means “one sent forth,” meaning just somebody sent forth to preach the gospel. But in the Church, there’s also capital A, Apostles, which means this is a job, a specific calling. And the Lord, in the later part of the section seems to be treating it that way.

Scott Woodward:
Is he saying that Oliver and David have the same calling as Paul, meaning Apostle, or they have the same calling as Paul, meaning one called to preach to the Gentiles? The language there can be ambiguous, but let’s roll with this because he does talk about apostles in this section.

Casey Griffiths:
We also today have a very set view of an apostle and what an apostle does. An apostle is a member of the Quorum of the 12. The First Presidency for the last century or so is typically just been apostles, but it hasn’t always been that way. We kind of found that out in our succession series that there have been apostles who weren’t members of the Quorum of the 12. It was a while before Joseph F. Smith, for instance, was brought into the Quorum of the 12. He was ordained an apostle first. There have been apostles at large. The last one was Alvin R. Dyer, who was ordained an apostle by David O. McKay, but was not put into the Quorum of the 12. And so I’m comfortable either way, if they’re being sent forth, and that’s just what apostle means here, or if they’re capital A Apostles, either way it It works. They don’t ever become members of the Quorum of the 12, Oliver and David don’t. But either way, verbally, it works.

Scott Woodward:
Let’s layer on some controversy here. So some people think that Peter, James, and John restored the Melchizedek Priesthood.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
What’s wrong with that, Casey?

Casey Griffiths:
Well, I mean, our mutual friend, Anthony Sweat, has a thing he does with his classes where he gets up in front of them and says, Class, who restored the priesthood? And the classes will say, John the Baptist and Peter, James, and John. And he’ll say, Okay, show me in the scriptures, where it says that. And they’ll search around a little bit and maybe go to Section 13 and talk about the Aaronic Priesthood, which we did last week. But then Tony will take him to Section 2 of the Doctrine and Covenants, where it says, “I will reveal unto you the priesthood by the hand of Elijah the prophet.” That’s an early section of the Doctrine and Covenants. And how come Elijah never comes up in these conversations? And let me maybe add some fuel to the controversy by pointing out that the recent Restoration Proclamation, which was written by the entire First Presidency and the Quorum of the 12 and was published in 2020, so not super long ago, describes priesthood restoration in interesting terms. Like, can I read a paragraph from the Restoration Proclamation?

Scott Woodward:
Yeah, read it.

Casey Griffiths:
Okay, here we go. This is paragraph 4 in the Restoration Proclamation, and it reads, “We affirm that under the direction of the Father and the Son, heavenly messengers came to instruct Joseph and reestablish the Church of Jesus Christ. The resurrected John the Baptist restored the authority to baptize by emersion for the remission of sins. Three of the original 12 Apostles— Peter, James, and John— restored the apostleship and keys of priesthood authority. Others came as well, including Elijah, who restored the authority to join families together forever in eternal relationships that transcend death.” So the First Presidency and the 12 are painting a more complicated picture than John the Baptist and Peter, James, and John. They add an Elijah, which lines up with Doctrine and Covenants 2, and others, as part of this restoration, too. How do you square all that?

Scott Woodward:
Yeah. So I think it’s important to notice what they didn’t say. They did not say, Peter, James, and John restored the Melchizedek Priesthood. That’s not scriptural. They did not do that. Section 27, where the Lord himself is speaking about this, says that he restored the apostleship and the keys of the kingdom through Peter, James, and John. While this might be kind of news to a lot of listeners to kind of think about this, it’s more accurate to say that Peter, James, and John bringing the apostleship and the keys of the kingdom was one step in a multi-step process of restoring the Melchizedek Priesthood, if we want to say it that way. Melchizedek Priesthood restoration is not an event, not a single event. This is a process strung out over the course of about seven years. Should we walk through a few of the other events real quick?

Casey Griffiths:
Walk us through them, yeah.

Scott Woodward:
For instance, number one, so Peter, James, and John. Number two, we mentioned that God’s voice was heard in the chamber of Father Whitmer right there in Fayette, New York, authorizing the ordaining of elders and the conferral of the Holy Ghost. That moment is another one of the moments of many in the process of restoring Melchizedek Priesthood. Then fast forward to June 1st, 1831, in Kirtland, Ohio, on the Isaac Morley farm. Here’s a moment where the Holy Order of God is restored or the high priesthood order of God is restored. What Joseph Smith calls the Melchizedek Priesthood order. It’s the first time he starts using the word Melchizedek to talk about priesthood here in the 1831 conference in June in Kirtland, Ohio. Then fast forward five years to Kirtland, Ohio, where we get Moses, Elias, and Elijah restoring keys of the priesthood. You mentioned Elijah in Section 2. Here’s where Elijah first shows up, 1836, April 3rd. Another key event, no pun intended here, in the restoration of Melchizedek Priesthood. Then in 1841, Doctrine and Covenants 124 says, You need to build the Nauvoo temple because I need a place where I can restore the fullness of the priesthood.

Scott Woodward:
This is 1841, Casey. And the Lord says, We’re not done yet. We are not done with the restoration of priesthood. And so it’s a little more complicated than saying, John the Baptist came and restored the Aaronic Priesthood. Peter, James, and John came and restored the Melchizedek Priesthood. The end. No, not the end. That’s actually kind of near the beginning that Peter, James, and John restore the keys of the and the keys of the kingdom, which seem to be necessary to organize the Church, April 6th, 1830. So that’s kind of the first piece of what we wanted to say is, It’s a little more complicated than that.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah, and I get that we simplify. We simplify because we have to for other people. And that generally is John the Baptist restored the Aaronic Priesthood, Peter, James, and John restored the Melchizedek Priesthood, and that’s okay. That’s not untrue.

Scott Woodward:
It’s just incomplete. Can we say that? It’s just incomplete.

Casey Griffiths:
It’s just incomplete, right? It’s the beginning of the story and not the end of it. It seems like in the Restoration Proclamation, the First Presidency and 12 are pointing us towards a greater complexity. We’re talking about multiple events involving numerous biblical figures that assist in this restoration of authority. That’s a better model if we’re embracing complexity to say, Hey, priesthood was restored through a series of events over a longer of time, not just these two events.

Scott Woodward:
And one more layer of complexity. It’s not just about bringing God’s authority back. It’s about creating a people who are prepared to rule and reign with Jesus when he comes now. We’re going to have to talk more about that later. But priesthood, what is the priesthood?

Casey Griffiths:
Oh, man. That’s like…

Scott Woodward:
Let’s park it there. Let’s bookmark that for a future conversation. Maybe Section 84, we’ll start getting into this more, but it’s a little more complex even, What is the priesthood? And so we’ll dig deeper as the Doctrine and Covenants takes us there.

Casey Griffiths:
Okay. So priesthood restoration is a multifaceted event. Good. Can I introduce another controversy?

Scott Woodward:
Okay.

Casey Griffiths:
Okay, so the controversy here is we’re not saying Peter, James, and John didn’t appear and they didn’t restore things, but when did this happen?

Scott Woodward:
When did Peter, James, and John restore the apostleship and the keys?

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah, When, when and under what conditions did they appear, is the big question. Because here’s the challenge. Okay, John the Baptist appearing easy-peasy. Joseph Smith gives us the exact date, May 15th, 1829. The circumstances, they were translating the Book of Mormon. They read a passage about authority to baptize. They went out in the woods to pray. That’s even the approximate location. Somewhere near Harmony, Pennsylvania, in the cabin where they were translating, they go out and John the Baptist appears, and he gives them the authority and then commands them to baptize each other and then ordain each other. All that happens on May 15th. We got that sewn up.

Scott Woodward:
Well, well documented, super well documented.

Casey Griffiths:
It’s well documented. Joseph Smith was very, very specific, I guess you’d say. When it comes to the appearance of Peter, James, and John, we got to do a little bit more detective work to kind of figure this out. So when did they appear? Where did they appear? What did Joseph Smith say? And what did they restore, like you just said, is even another question. What did they bring back? And so we got to do a little detective work to figure this out.

Scott Woodward:
Can I drop our first clue?

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah, first clue. Go ahead.

Scott Woodward:
So the first clue, I think, is Section 128, verse 20, right? This is written, like, way later in Nauvoo.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah, 1843, I believe.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah, okay. And Joseph says this. He says, “Peter, James, and John in the wilderness between Harmony, Susquehanna county, and Colesville, Broome county, on the Susquehanna river, declaring themselves as possessing the keys of the kingdom, and the dispensation of the fullness of times,” close quote. So there’s his hint. He tells us location between Colesville, just over the Pennsylvania border, the south of, south part of New York, somewhere between Colesville and then Harmony, right there in northern Pennsylvania, along the Susquehanna River.

Casey Griffiths:
Okay, so that gives us a location of where Peter, James, and John appeared. Can I add another layer of complexity here? Okay, so in Joseph Smith’s history, his history that he starts in 1838, when he is talking about this time period, around the time Section 18 was received. We mentioned this a little bit earlier in the podcast. He writes something that we need to square with this together, too. In 1829, “We now became anxious to have that promise realized to us, that provided we continued faithful, we should also have the Melchizedek Priesthood, which holds the authority of the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. We had for some time made this matter a subject of humble prayer, and at length we got together in the chamber of Mr. Whitmer’s house in order more particularly to seek the Lord, what we now so earnestly desired. And here to our unspeakable satisfaction, did we realize the truth of the Savior’s promise, Ask and you shall receive, seek, and you shall find, knock, and it shall be opened unto you. For we had not long been engaged in solemn and fervent prayer, when the word of the Lord came to us in the chamber, commanding us that I should ordain Oliver Cowdery to be an elder in the Church of Jesus Christ, and that he also should ordain me to that same office.”

Casey Griffiths:
So some people have pointed to this passage, which is alluded to in Section 128. Also in verse 21, the exact next verse, he says, “The voice of God in the chamber of old Father Whitmer in Fayette, Seneca county.” Let’s put these data points together. We know that Peter, James, and John appeared on the Susquehanna River somewhere between Colesville and Harmony. We know that Joseph Smith had said that God spoke to them in the chamber of Father Whitmer and told them to ordain each other to the priesthood. Can we take those clues and put together some models that give us a time when this all happened?

Scott Woodward:
Yeah. So we need to identify in the history when were Joseph and Oliver traveling between Harmony, Pennsylvania and Colesville, New York, along the Susquehanna River. Like when are the possible times that we can try to pin this down? And there seems to be, from the historical record, only two candidates, aren’t there?

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. Yeah. There’s two candidates, and, and they’re favored by good people. I think you and I have a favorite theory, so I’ll address the first one. Richard Bushman is a, is a well-known historian. He wrote Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling. And there’s one point where, you know, I remember reading an interview with him where somebody asked, like, Do you ever break with your Church on, on historical events? And he was like, Yeah, here’s one example. And this was the example he cited. Richard Bushman believes that Peter, James, and John appeared after the Church was organized. The reason why he believes this is we don’t have any information about the circumstances that they appeared under, except for this account, which comes from a guy named Addison Everett. Addison Everett was a member of the Church. He said this to Oliver Huntington, I actually sent one of my teaching assistants to find this paper in the library of BYU. And Addison Everett gives this description. Now, Addison Everett basically says that he heard Joseph and Hyrum talking to each other. So this is a second-hand account. In describing it, he talks about Joseph and Oliver being pursued. So he says this. He says, “They got into the woods, and in going a few rods from the house, it was night, and they traveled through brush and water and mud, fell over logs, et cetera, until Oliver was exhausted. Then Joseph helped him along through the mud and water, almost carrying him. They traveled all night, and just at the break of day, Oliver gave out entirely and exclaimed, ‘Oh, Lord, brother Joseph, how long have we got to endure this thing?’ They sat down on a log to rest, and Joseph said that at that very time, Peter, James, and John came to them and ordained them to the apostleship.”

Scott Woodward:
Wait, wait, so they were, they were up in Colesville. This is during the Colesville persecutions of…

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
What, July 1830?

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. So this would be the summer after the Church was organized. In reconciling Addison Everett’s statement, Richard Bushman and others would say, Well, when was a time when they were near the Susquehanna? Because that matches up with Section 128, and they were being pursued, and they would have had to flee through the woods. That’s summer 1830, which for us is confusing because that’s after the Church was organized.

Scott Woodward:
Would they not need the keys of the apostleship and the keys of the kingdom to organize the Church?

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah, that’s why this is sort of problematic to me. But Bushman is arguing that that voice of God in the chamber of Father Whitmer that we referenced earlier was the restoration of the Melchizedek Priesthood, which in some ways is kind of neat. He’s saying that the Lord himself restored the Melchizedek Priesthood. In other ways, it doesn’t work. There’s no laying on of hands. There’s just a direction for them to ordain each other. And then Peter, James, and John have to show up almost a year afterwards in the summer of 1830 and ordain them apostles. So Bushman is arguing that God restored the Melchizedek Priesthood himself in the chamber of Father Whitmer, and that a year later, after the Church was organized, Peter, James, and John ordained them apostles, while this incident that Addison Everett is describing happened. And again, nobody here is saying it didn’t happen. Like, Bushman is a faithful member of the Church. But this is one place where he says, yeah, I with Church orthodoxy on the timing of when Peter, James, and John appeared and what Peter, James, and John restored.

Scott Woodward:
You and I tend to hold a different opinion.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. So walk him through option two, which I think is the more plausible of the two.

Scott Woodward:
Option two, this is the other time that Joseph and Oliver were between Colesville and Harmony by the Susquehanna River, and it’s May of 1829. It’s the same month that John the Baptist came. So John the Baptist comes on the 15th of May. And then shortly after that, Samuel Smith, Joseph’s brother, comes to visit, and they baptize him. At one point there, Joseph and Oliver run out of supplies for the Book of Mormon translation. And so they head up to Colesville to go talk with brother Joseph Knight, Sr., and ask for more provisions. And Joseph Knight, Sr. himself has an account of this. He says, quote, “Joseph and Oliver came up to see me if I could help him to some provisions, they having no way to buy any. But I was gone to Catskill,” another city nearby. “When I came home, my folks told me what Joseph wanted, but I I went again and bought a barrel of mackerel and some lined paper for writing. When I came home, I bought some nine or 10 bushels of grain and five or six bushels of taters and a pound of tea, and I went down to see them, and they were in want. Joseph and Oliver were gone to see if they could a place to work for provisions, but they found none. They returned home and found me with the provisions, and they were glad, for they were out.” Their family consisted of four, this is important. Joseph and wife, Oliver, and Joseph’s brother, Samuel. “Then they went to work and had provisions enough until the translation was done,” close quote.

Scott Woodward:
What seems like a little innocuous journal entry about Joseph Knight helping them with the translation with materials turns out to be really crucial. We know that Samuel Smith came down to visit shortly after John the Baptist came, and he was still there when Joseph and Oliver went up to see Joseph Knight and come back down. Because when Joseph Knight comes back down and brings provisions, who’s there? Joseph, his wife, Oliver, and Samuel Smith is still there. Samuel goes home about the end of May 1829. So that matters. That matters deeply. Now we have another time after John the Baptist has come, before Section 18 is given, just right before Section 18 is given, when Joseph Oliver and Oliver were in the right place along the Susquehanna between Harmony and Colesville.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
And you and I think that fits better with the timeline of all of the events put together, that now, Section 18, the Lord is talking more freely about apostles, right? After Peter, James, and John had just come. And that now when they go and pray in the chamber of Father Whitmer in Fayette, and they ask, Now what do we do? What about Melchizedek priesthood? Which again is a cool thought. Peter, James, and John had already come and they’re saying, What about Melchizedek? What about Holy Ghost? What about ordaining elders? And the Lord says, Yes, I authorize you to do that, but wait until the Church is organized and you can, you know, do an official Church and do it on that day. And so, that seems to fit better. So by April 6th, 1830, with the keys of the apostleship, they’re able to officially do this act and organize the Church. And everything just seems to fit better. And that’s a nice, beautiful candidate where we know Joseph and Oliver are in the right place at the right time. And I just think it’s a better fit of all the information.

Casey Griffiths:
So we’ve got a date, May 15th, when John the Baptist appears.

Scott Woodward:
Yes.

Casey Griffiths:
Samuel’s here. The other date that we’ve got to fix in our minds is they leave Harmony at the end of May to go to Fayette. So if Joseph Smith is saying Peter, James, and John appeared on the banks of the Susquehanna after the end of May, they’re nowhere near the banks of the Susquehanna. That’s why a lot of historians and some good folks like Larry Porter have said, that’s the two week window where Peter, James, and John would have appeared. And then my theory is, and I might be wrong here, that incident in the chamber of Father Whitmer is them not asking about the Melchizedek Priesthood, per se. The wording there is confusing. But if they can ordain each other to the Melchizedek Priesthood. Because in the early incident when John the Baptist appears, the sequence they give us is, He gave us the authority, then he directed us to baptize each other, then he directed us to ordain each other. I think what the chamber of Father Whitmer incident is referring to is Peter, James, and John give them the authority, but don’t direct them to ordain each other, and they’re seeking the Lord to know if they can do that.

Casey Griffiths:
And I like that. I mean, I like them both. I don’t think we should ignore the chamber of Father Whitmer because it gives the Lord a role in the restoration of the priesthood as well, which in my mind is really, really great. Like, he deserves to have a role. I’m glad to know that in Joseph Smith’s mind, that was a key moment in the restoration of the priesthood also.

Scott Woodward:
Yeah, and another little layer of complexity here is that we don’t learn about the chamber of Father Whitmer until Joseph’s 1838 history. And now he’s using the word Melchizedek, which is actually an anachronistic word. Back in 1830, they weren’t using the word Melchizedek yet.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah.

Scott Woodward:
That really… That doesn’t really come into the vocabulary until 1835, where they really start using that a lot. Like you’ll see, like, in Section 84, which is a very priesthood-heavy revelation, that’s 1832. And they’re just calling these lower priesthood and higher priesthood. We’re not really settled on Aaronic and Melchizedek by name yet. That also adds a layer of difficulty in trying to, like, figure out what’s going on because in 1838, he says, We were praying about, you know, receiving the Melchizedek Priesthood. It’s like, that wasn’t actually the language of your prayer because you didn’t talk like that yet. Now you do, in 1838 when you’re writing this history, and s-. It does just add some historical difficulty. We’re trying to get at what was actually going on at this time. That the chamber of Father Whitmer is a super intriguing and very, I guess, under discussed moment in the sequence of the restoration of Melchizedek priesthood.

Casey Griffiths:
I want to be clear here that even though this can be really confusing, I explain this to people when we’re on the sites where all this happened and they’re still scratching their heads. Don’t miss the forest for the trees here. Nobody involved was saying that Peter, James, and John didn’t appear. We’re just arguing, and everybody is faithful, over the timing and what they restored. Joseph Smith said Peter, James, and John. Oliver Cowdery said Peter, James, and John. In fact, can I read a little quote from Oliver Cowdery? This was a letter he wrote to Phineas Young, who we just talked about a little bit earlier, while he was outside the Church. And Phineas is trying to convince Oliver to come back into the Church. And Oliver is saying, I’ll come back into the Church, but I want the charges dropped against me that were used to excommunicate me. Oliver writes and notes, I’m not doing this to be sensitive. Here’s his reason. This is a letter he writes in March 1846 to Phineas Young, Oliver writes, “I have cherished a hope, and that one of my fondest, that I might leave such a character as those who might believe in my testimony, after I should be called hence, might do so, not only for the sake of truth, but might not blush for the private character of the man who bore that testimony. I have been sensitive on this subject, I admit, but I ought to be so. You would be under the circumstances had you stood in the presence of John, with our departed brother Joseph, to receive the lesser priesthood, and in the presence of Peter to receive the greater and look down through time and witness the effect these two must produce.” So this is… Oliver’s out of the Church. He has no reason to continue to defend the faith, but he’s saying, Hey, I need these charges dropped. The reason why I’m sensitive is I don’t want anybody to doubt that I stood in the presence of John the Baptist and Peter the Apostle, and that I received authority from both of them. So everybody is on the same page here and saying, Yes, Peter, James, and John played a role in priesthood restoration. We just don’t quite have pinned down the when and the where of what they appeared or what they restored, to be honest. But if you have that model in mind, that priesthood restoration is a multifaceted event, that it’s several things that happen, then this is pretty easy to kind of deal with.

Scott Woodward:
Process, not event. Peter, James, and John played a key role. The chamber of Father Whitmer played another key role. The Morley Farm in 1831 plays another key role. The Kirtland Temple in 1836 plays another key role. Yeah, when you, when you kind of string them all together, that does help to massage out some of these difficulties. Let’s land the plane here with Section 18. What are the consequences? What’s the aftermath of Section 18? I think we can summarize it pretty simply like this, that the Doctrine and Covenants 18 played a vital role in shaping the Latter-day Church in at least three ways. Number one, by guiding Oliver Cowdery, initially here, to distill into one document the foundational doctrine, ordinances, structure, and practices of the Church from the Book of Mormon. That document, known as the Articles of the Church of Christ, appears to be what Joseph will take and use as the basis for creating what becomes Section 20 of the Doctrine and Covenants, which is the official-official governing document of the Church. This is kind of the predecessor document that leads to Section 20. That grows out of Section 18.

Casey Griffiths:
Yeah. And we can’t overstate the importance of Section 20. It just impacts everything that we do in the Church today. And this is kind of the start of preparing Section 20. So second consequence, Section 18, maybe better than anything, captures the core of what the Church is all about. That is inviting all mankind everywhere to repent, come unto Christ through baptism, and take upon themselves his name so that they can be saved in the kingdom of his Father, and that this is what Christ died to make possible. So later on, Joseph Smith is going to say, That’s what we believe. The fundamental principles of our religion are that Jesus died, was buried, and rose again the third day. Everything else is an appendage. Section 18 does a beautiful job capturing the worth of souls, as illustrated by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

Scott Woodward:
Beautiful. And then finally, the third thing that Section 18 does is it directly leads to the calling of the 12 Apostles in the latter days to lead out in this core work of inviting all to come into Christ. That’s at the heart of the Lord’s Church.

Casey Griffiths:
Well, this has been wonderful. And again, what we thought was going to be sort of a short discussion. When you start to dig into this, there’s so much to talk about and some complex historical problems that I hope we navigated okay. But boy, good stuff.

Scott Woodward:
Awesome. Well, thank you, Casey. We’ll see you next week when we get to do another entire hour plus on one section, Section 19 of the Doctrine and Covenants.

Casey Griffiths:
An important section, one of the most beautiful sections of the Doctrine and Covenants. So I’ll look forward to that.

Scott Woodward:
Okay, we’ll see you then.